We know by now that BAB form other classes still applies to a monk's flurry. Quick question, though - flurry eventually grants extra attacks (as if two-weapon fighting). Do you still get this benefit if you multiclass out of Monk for a full BAB class? If not, and you end up picking the TWF feats to make up for it, can you use the feats while flurrying?
By eventually do you mean at 1st level?
A 1st lvl monk has 2 attacks at -2.
Here's a couple of examples at higher level play to explain the extra attacks.
Example 1:
Monk 1/Fighter 6
BAB: +6/+1
BAB when flurrying: +7/+2
FoB: +5/+5/+0 (-0/-0 plus +7/+2 - 2)
Example 2:
Monk 6/Fighter 7
BAB: +11/+6/+1
BAB when flurrying: +13/+8/+3
FoB: +11/+11/+6/+1
Hope that helps.
We know by now that BAB form other classes still applies to a monk's flurry. Quick question, though - flurry eventually grants extra attacks (as if two-weapon fighting). Do you still get this benefit if you multiclass out of Monk for a full BAB class? If not, and you end up picking the TWF feats to make up for it, can you use the feats while flurrying?
I am not enterily sure, what the scenario you are asking about is.
But if you multiclass out of the monk, you retain your flurry of blows.
Ex. Taken 1 level of monk allow you to make a flurry of blows with 1 extra attack (as if TWF), if you multiclass after that, you get the 1 extra attack and no more (until you get to monk level 8).
I guess you could combine a flurry of blows, with the higher levels of TWF. Your monk 1/fighter 11, could use his FoB, and add attacks from both imp TWF and Greater TWF. But he would still have to take the TWF feat first, as the Flurry it self doesn't substitute the feat requirement.
But just to be clear, he cannot gain more attacks than the 3 granted from either TWF or FoB.
We know by now that BAB form other classes still applies to a monk's flurry. Quick question, though - flurry eventually grants extra attacks (as if two-weapon fighting). Do you still get this benefit if you multiclass out of Monk for a full BAB class? If not, and you end up picking the TWF feats to make up for it, can you use the feats while flurrying?I am not enterily sure, what the scenario you are asking about is.
But if you multiclass out of the monk, you retain your flurry of blows.
Ex. Taken 1 level of monk allow you to make a flurry of blows with 1 extra attack (as if TWF), if you multiclass after that, you get the 1 extra attack and no more (until you get to monk level 8).I guess you could combine a flurry of blows, with the higher levels of TWF. Your monk 1/fighter 11, could use his FoB, and add attacks from both imp TWF and Greater TWF. But he would still have to take the TWF feat first, as the Flurry it self doesn't substitute the feat requirement.
But just to be clear, he cannot gain more attacks than the 3 granted from either TWF or FoB.
TWF + FoB do not stack.
much to my disgust.
*edit* tho with Zen Archer Monks around now, it's prob a good thing ;p
TWF + FoB do not stack.
much to my disgust.
*edit* tho with Zen Archer Monks around now, it's prob a good thing ;p
Why not?
I can't find it anywhere that you cannot use other feats in connection with Flurry of Blows.
Of course the Two Weapon Fighting feat cannot be used together with FoB, as it is essentially the same. But the cases proposed, involves 1 extra attack through FoB, and the 2 others from iTWF and gTWF. Why shouldn't it be possible.
I might very well have missed something, in that case I hope you will direct me towards the answer :-)
The reason is that FoB says that you're treated as if you have TWF. So if you then got TWF (or I/GTWF) it's like you have it twice (which does nothing extra).
And if you look at the FoB progression table, a Monk using FoB is already considered to have both ITWF and GTWF without needing the pre-req's.
I would like to note Tanis, that Monk/Fighter get´s extra +1 to attack!
You forgot that when Monk is using FoB, instead of BAB, Monk´s level will be used in BAB, so Monk lvl 1 = FoB -1/-1
Monk 1/Fighter 6 = +6/+6/+1
Actually, I am unsure those this still work, when monk multiclass, but I would think this is the case.
+6/+1 from fighter and +0 from monk
BAB: +6/+1
BAB when flurrying: +7/+2
but if we take also the monk lvl here (treated as a BAB)
then it will be
FoB: +6/+6/+1 (-0/-0 plus +7/+2 - 1)
** spoiler omitted **
I am actually trying to answer OPs second question, so it not really a threadjack...
Yes, the monk, at levels 8 and 15 respectively, is considered using ITWF and GTWF.
But the question all the way, has been: What happens when he multiclasses?
The monk/fighter only gains 1 extra attack due to FoB (as if using TWF), he cannot use the same feat (TWF) again, but why shouldn't he be able to add the effects of the other feats (which he does not gain from his low monk levels)?
TWF and FoB does not stack, because they grant the same effect. Higher levels FoB and ITWF/GTWF does not stack because the grant the same extra effect. But there is nothing that states that you cannot use the feats in combinations, with your low level FoB, just like any other feats that work in a full-attack-action.
@Avanti: Are you sure i miscalculated? That's why i had BAB, and BAB when flurrying. btw, there's absolutely no difference in BAB between a Monk 1/Fighter 6 or a Monk 6/Fighter 1 when flurrying. Not sure why you say that Monk/Fighters get +1 to hit, unless you're talking about when not flurrying.
@HaraldKlak: Yeah, you're prob right, just erring on caution's side.
aaah, i get ya now. m'bad. um, i suppose you're right, but they'd have to get TWF as a useless feat.
Aah, yes. My mistake. I have really big tendency to think in a other way (mostly complicated, no idea why, since I am quite mathematic person)
Just saw that you went directly to: fighter bab = +6/+1 and monk bab|level = +1/+1 > +7/+2 all together
FoB: -2/-2
So the BAB: +7/+2
and result: +5/+5/+0
I was thinking along this line:
-2/-2 = Monk level > -1/-1
-1/-1 = BAB:+7/+2 > +6/+6/+1, which is incorrect (my calculation)
So, general consensus is that you can get the extra attacks even if you multiclassed out of Monk, so long as you "buy" them with the TWF line, the first of which you take even though it gives no benefit?
Right.
Ok, like the OP, I also have a question about multiclassing monks. I know it's been hashed and rehashed that monks use their monk level along with their multiclass levels BAB when determining FoB. So here's my question:
A level 9 character with Monk 4/Wiz 1/Dragon Disciple 4 has a BAB of +6/+1. Would that mean that when he uses FoB he'd have +5/+5/-1 or +5/+5?
Also if we level him up a few more levels to level 16 as a Monk 11/Wiz 1/Dragon Disciple 4 he would have a BAB of +11/+6/+1. Would his FoB be +12/+12/+7/+7/+2/+2?
Basically I guess I'm just unsure if having an extra attack normally from having a high BAB would also get added into your FoB? From looking at table 3-10 it looks like monks get extra attacks at 8 and 15 as written in the book, but also at level 6, 11, and 16 as a class with good BAB would.
IIRC...
Monk 4: BAB +3 (+4 when Flurrying, gains TWF => -2)
Monk 11: BAB +8 (+11 when Flurrying, gains TWF and ITWF => -2)
Wiz 1: BAB +0
Dragon Disciple 4: BAB +3 (Str +4)
Monk 4/Wiz 1/Dragon Disciple 4: BAB +6/+1 (+5/+5/-1 when Flurrying)
Monk 11/Wiz 1/Dragon Disciple 4: BAB +11/+6/+1 (+12/+12/+7/+7/+2 when Flurrying)
Hope this helps.