Gloves of Dueling - Ruling Needed


Rules Questions


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

The Gloves of Dueling (APG) indicate that "[i]f the wearer has the weapon training class feature and is using an appropriate weapon, his weapon training bonus increases by +2."

Now, some of the "subclass" packages of alternate class features for fighters (from Chapter 2 of the same book) swap out weapon training for other abilities. The Archer, for instance, gains "Expert Archer" instead, which functions like weapon training, but with bows. The Polearm Master gets "Polearm Training," which functions like weapon training, but for spears and polearms.

My question is this: does having one of these abilities count as having "weapon training" as a class feature for the purpose of Gloves of Dueling? If so, a rubric to cover these cases is needed, and wording may be important, as some of the things that replace weapon training are less straightforward than the examples already cited (see Mobile Fighter). I'm not against the idea of applying this bonus to anyone who has weapon training 1 or any substituted class feature, but I'm curious to see how the ruling comes down, and the reasoning given.


Quote:

A character who takes an alternate class feature does not count as having the class feature that was replaced when meeting any requirements or prerequisites.

-Advanced Players Guide, Page 72

I think it's clear that the alternate class features to not count as the ones they replace.

In some cases, it might be reasonable to house-rule that an alternate class feature does count as the stock feature. For example, the Crossbow Expert replaces Weapon Training 1 with the same pattern of bonuses, only applicable when using crossbows. If I was GMing a Crossbow Expert, I would allow Gloves of Dueling to work when used with a crossbow only.

Sovereign Court

The rules say no, but your GM is free to decide if they work or not. It isn't horribly unreasonably.


I would agree the rules dont say you can but I have. After all some of the replacement abilities are only as good as the first wepaon group you choose ie twin blades, so you already lose out on the bonuses to other weapon groups. Allowing the item to be applied to any ability that replaces weapon training I dont think is any diffrent.

As a side note-ish I have taken the wording 'replace (say) weapon training' with the new ability name, makes things abit easier for this sort of thing as I say most of the abilities are pretty much the same in its first bonus.


I would say yes. If something is supposed to effectively be a narrower form of weapon training the ability should still work.

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