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I was thinking how badly I would love to be able to play a Dragon born kind of race. I know this is not Dungeons and Dragons, and I am not sure how one would intro duce such a race into the setting, but I personally think it would be kick ass to be able to play a Dragon born noble Knight or Paladin, or some thing like that. Maybe we could make up the race traits like racial bonus's and stuff.
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We've got it in 3E and it is very easy to convert to Pathfinder.
Question, are you looking for a Half Dragon or someone with dragonblood? Dragon-blooded would have a distant dragon ancester and be considerably less powerful.
It's that power where the difference comes in because of game balance.
Humans,
Elves,
Dwarves,
these are all CR 1...
Whereas
Gnolls,
Drow,
Dragon-blooded,
are all CR +2
A Half Dragon should be about CR +5
So one PC can't be a half-dragon when the other PCs are humans, elves and dwarves. It's not balanced.
Now, if one PC is a Half Dragon, 1st level Fighter and the other PCs are 6th level humans, elves and dwarves -- then they're balanced.
Or, if you're a Dragonblooded, 1st level PC, the other PCs should be 2nd level humans, elves and dwarves.
I was thinking how badly I would love to be able to play a Dragon born kind of race. I know this is not Dungeons and Dragons, and I am not sure how one would intro duce such a race into the setting, but I personally think it would be kick ass to be able to play a Dragon born noble Knight or Paladin, or some thing like that. Maybe we could make up the race traits like racial bonus's and stuff.
Yeah, the Dragonborn were the only good thing to come out of 4E.
Lizardfolk are right there in the bestiary, speak draconic already, and seem to be a perfectly playable race well set up in the Golarion setting if that's where you're playing. They probably don't call themselves "lizardfolk" either--that would be kind of like humans calling themselves "apefolk."
Have a noble and civilized tribe of them somewhere in the River Kingdoms who either never lost their noble heritage or have actively gone about reclaiming it, with various levels of historical accuracy.
You want an origin story? Here's an easy one: Human paladin or cavalier from the nation of Hermea, who is basically a Sir Lancelot type, goes off adventuring, righting wrongs, fighting darkness, all the usual good stuff, until he's killed but is then brought back by the party druid. He comes back as a lizardfolk.
Knowing jack about lizardfolk customs, he makes it up, with all his knightly upbringing and gold-dragon worship via coming from Hermea. He then moves to the River Kingdoms and basically takes the Miles Standish role and falls in love with his lizardfolk Pocahontas, founding a nation of lizardfolk with all sorts of imported human chivalry virtues mixed with Hermean dragon reverence and whatever draconic ancestor legends the lizardfolk already had. And then he started having oracular visions and made like Joseph Smith, writing up a whole Book of Dragons which is like a lizardfolk version of the Book of Mormon.
This was a couple hundred years ago, and your new character comes from Dragotopia, basically Lizardfolk Disneyland/Salt Lake Ciy in the River Kingdoms and if he's a paladin, he's kind of like a Mormon missionary, and he'd probably be very happy to find that not all humans are like the evil assassins of neighboring Daggermark and its poisoners guild which has been trying to exterminate good and noble Dragotopia all his life.
There's also an unfortunate passage in the Book of Dragons about how humans, elves, orcs, halflings and all the rest came about after Lamashtu had an orgy with a bunch of primates, with orcs coming from gorillas, humans from chimps, elves from lemurs, and gnomes from those little bush baby things. However, the current prophet of Mengkare has had a convenient revelation and says that was a typo and that was really the origin story for goblins, hobgoblins and trolls.
...
You want an origin story? Here's an easy one: Human paladin or cavalier from the nation of Hermea, who is basically a Sir Lancelot type, goes off adventuring, righting wrongs, fighting darkness, all the usual good stuff, until he's killed but is then brought back by the party druid. He comes back as a lizardfolk.Knowing jack about lizardfolk customs, he makes it up, with all his knightly upbringing and gold-dragon worship via coming from Hermea. He then moves to the River Kingdoms and basically takes the Miles Standish role and falls in love with his lizardfolk Pocahontas, founding a nation of lizardfolk with all sorts of imported human chivalry virtues mixed with Hermean dragon reverence and whatever draconic ancestor legends the lizardfolk already had. And then he started having oracular visions and made like Joseph Smith, writing up a whole Book of Dragons which is like a lizardfolk version of the Book of Mormon.
This was a couple hundred years ago, and your new character comes from Dragotopia, basically Lizardfolk Disneyland/Salt Lake Ciy in the River Kingdoms and if he's a paladin, he's kind of like a Mormon missionary, and he'd probably be very happy to find that not all humans are like the evil assassins of neighboring Daggermark and its poisoners guild which has been trying to exterminate good and noble Dragotopia all his life.
There's also an unfortunate passage in the Book of Dragons about how humans, elves, orcs, halflings and all the rest came about after Lamashtu had an orgy with a bunch...
+1
When are you releasing this book, because I would buy it. :O)
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The Dragonborn from 3rd edition are a template. Typically, a follower of Bahamut transforms into a Dragonborn to fight the spawn of Tiamat.
So, what's the difference lineage-wise between a Dragonborn, a Kobold, and a Sorcerer with the dragon blood line?
Dragonborn are Humanoids who have become dragonlike after devoting themselves to Bahamut.
Kobolds sprang from the blood of the first dragons.Sorcerers with a dragon bloodline have descended from a dragon.
There's also a draconic template, a quarter-dragon. Finally, there is the Spellscale race, the ofspring of 2 sorcerers.
Dragon + Humanoid = Half-Dragon
Half-Dragon + Humanoid = Draconic
Draconic + Humanoid = Dragon Bloodline Humanoid Sorcerer
Dragon Bloodline Sorcerer + Dragon Bloodline Sorcerer = Spellscale
Something like that. It's complicated, but you can find it all in races of the dragon.
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...And then he started having oracular visions and made like Joseph Smith, writing up a whole Book of Dragons which is like a lizardfolk version of the Book of Mormon.
This was a couple hundred years ago, and your new character comes from Dragotopia, basically Lizardfolk Disneyland/Salt Lake Ciy in the River Kingdoms and if he's a paladin, he's kind of like a Mormon missionary...
So... dragonborn are the mormons of D&D, founded by Sir Galahad and Pocahontas? I've never played a game with dragonborn in it, but... this is awesome. And hilarious.
P.S. I know you said Lancelot, but I think Galahad is a much better candidate both as a paladin and for receiving oracular visions.
...And then he started having oracular visions and made like Joseph Smith, writing up a whole Book of Dragons which is like a lizardfolk version of the Book of Mormon.
This was a couple hundred years ago, and your new character comes from Dragotopia, basically Lizardfolk Disneyland/Salt Lake Ciy in the River Kingdoms and if he's a paladin, he's kind of like a Mormon missionary...
So... dragonborn are the mormons of D&D, founded by Sir Galahad and Pocahontas? I've never played a game with dragonborn in it, but... this is awesome. And hilarious.
P.S. I know you said Lancelot, but I think Galahad is a much better candidate both as a paladin and for receiving oracular visions.
Oh, agreed. Consider it changed.
It was just an idea on how to get a bunch of chivalrous dragonborn paladins put into Golarion. I think lizardfolk dragon cultist missionaries would easily fit the bill, especially with some of them as sorcerers with the draconic bloodline.
How about: +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Dex? Perhaps some natural armor?
I totally agree. I think Pathfinder should have a "dragonborn" race, much like 4E included, but with its own unique flavor. Dragons are one of the biggest constants in fantasy gaming (Pathfinder or otherwise), and it always made a lot of sense to have a draconic race alongside the other races.
A draconic race is an iconic aspect of fantasy, and 4E didn't start it. Neither did 3E. It was Dragonlance that really hammered the idea home, along with various animated series, as well as several video games which involved draconic characters (like Breath of Fire). The simple reason behind this is that people love dragons (I think the massive box office haul of "How to Train Your Dragon" speaks volumes), and playing a draconic race is massively fun. Dragonborn are easily the most-played non-humanlike race in 4E (and also receive the most fanart, I've noticed). Maybe a centaur race too, since they've been such a big feature in modern fantasy (the Narnia movies, the Hercules series, and so forth).
I think this really comes back around to my biggest complaint about Pathfinder...it doesn't feel "progressive". It's like taking a step backwards rather than forwards. If Pathfinder's goal is to bring 3.5 forward into the new millennium and keep it fresh and interesting, it doesn't really feel like it's trying very hard. All it really did was iron out some bad rules, and introduce a couple of ideas that really don't change anything (like combat maneuvers, variant favored class benefits and Traits). I have yet to see the game really do anything to take a significant step forward.
How about a Warlock class with all innate powers that utilizes a mix of Sorcerer bloodline and Wizard school abilities? How about a Psionics class that gains powers the way other characters gain skills? How about something other than the same set of long-used, long-tired-of races that fantasy gaming has ground into the dirt? I want to see Pathfinder really step outside of 3.5's box and do something truly different!
As it is, it still comes off as a bunch of middle class white people standing around a backyard barbecue complaining about "racial integration" and newfangled technology. :/
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Knowing jack about lizardfolk customs, he makes it up, with all his knightly upbringing and gold-dragon worship via coming from Hermea. He then moves to the River Kingdoms and basically takes the Miles Standish role and falls in love with his lizardfolk Pocahontas, founding a nation of lizardfolk with all sorts of imported human chivalry virtues mixed with Hermean dragon reverence and whatever draconic ancestor legends the lizardfolk already had. And then he started having oracular visions and made like Joseph Smith, writing up a whole Book of Dragons which is like a lizardfolk version of the Book of Mormon.
I would so read this as well. Great analogy, Kevin!
Well, honestly, the lizardfolk haven't been doing much interesting with their lives since 1st edition, and if anyone is going to be starting a dragon cult, it makes sense that the people with scales and tails to begin with would be the ones doing it.
As for the Mormon spin, in a fantasy world, having gold tablets with ancient lore that miraculously appear and disappear? Totally believable. Hell, you can even have lizardfolk paladins running around the landscape doing a grail quest seeking the miraculous lost tablets, enlisting companions to help them in their quest, and having as part of their theology the belief that the truly exemplary among the "lesser" races will be reincarnated as lizardfolk so as to be closer to the great dragons.
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How's this?
Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Charisma, -2 Dexterity. Dragonborn are strong and well-suited to sorcery, but they inherit a certain clumsiness from their draconic ancestors.
Darkvision 60 feet
Skills: +2 Intimidate and +2 Knowledge (History). Dragonborn look physically menacing, and their draconic roots endow them with an increased curiosity about history.
Draconic Resistance: At first level, a Dragonborn may select a type of dragon that he or she is descended from. He then gains resistance 10 to the element that that dragon's breath weapon deals and a +1 bonus to natural armor.
The actual Bestiary entry for the Lizardfolk breaks down like this:
Medium Humanoid (Reptilian)
2 Racial HD
Str +2, Con +2, Int -2
Natural Armor +5
Speed: 30 ft.; Choice of Climb 15 ft. OR Swim 15 ft. (Note: having a Climb or Swim speed grants a +8 racial bonus to that skill. See the Core Rulebook for more rules.) Note that Swim is the default, but Climb is listed at the end of the monster entry.
Natural attacks: Bite (1d4), 2 claws (1d4). These become secondary attacks if used with a weapon. (Note: the entry only lists 1 claw attack because the default Lizardfolk has a shield.)
+4 racial bonus to Acrobatics
Hold Breath (Ex): Hold its breath for 4 x Con rounds.
The Core Rulebook gives indicates that a Lizardfolk without any class levels could adventure with 2nd level characters.
This could easily be broken down into two subspecies of a new race playable at 1st level. Call them whatever you like, but this came to mind:
Dracokyn
Medium Humanoid (Reptilian)
Speed 30 ft.
Natural Attacks: Bite (1d4), 2 Claws (1d4) (primary unless used w/ weapons).
+4 racial bonus to Acrobatics.
Optional: Add Darkvision 60 ft.
Forest/Hill Dracokyn
Str +2, Wis +2, Int -2
Natural Armor +3
Speed: Add Climb 15 ft.
Water Dracokyn
Con +2, Wis +2, Int -2
Natural Armor +2
Speed: Add Swim 15 ft.
Hold Breath (Ex): 4 x Con rounds
Feel free to ignore or use as desired.
Cheers!
I say keep the Dragonborn as converted by Squidmasher.
To play an adventure path, have them do the ritual of rehatching when they are the equivalent level. Thus at 6th level they could become 5 levels Dragonborn and 1 level of Paladin.
How's this?
Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Charisma, -2 Dexterity. Dragonborn are strong and well-suited to sorcery, but they inherit a certain clumsiness from their draconic ancestors.
Darkvision 60 feet
Skills: +2 Intimidate and +2 Knowledge (History). Dragonborn look physically menacing, and their draconic roots endow them with an increased curiosity about history.
Draconic Resistance: At first level, a Dragonborn may select a type of dragon that he or she is descended from. He then gains resistance 10 to the element that that dragon's breath weapon deals and a +1 bonus to natural armor.
I like this version. Simple, concise, covers the bases. Opens itself up to a number of draconic feats. :)
In fact...how about these?
Improved Draconic Resistance
Prerequisite: Dragonborn
Benefit: Increase the energy resistance granted by the dragonborn racial ability by 5.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. The benefit stacks.
Dragonborn Wings
Prerequisite: Dragonborn, 3 ranks in Fly
Benefit: You develop small wings that allow you to slow your fall by 20 feet.
Improved Dragonborn Wings
Prerequisite: Dragonborn wings feat, 6 ranks in Fly
Benefit: You can now glide, provided you have at least 10 feet of elevation to take off from. Your gliding speed is 30 feet, and you can glide for a number of rounds equal to your Con score before your wings give out and you fall normally.
Special: Gain Fly as a class skill. If you already had Fly as a class skill, you instead gain a +1 bonus to the Fly skill.
Greater Dragonborn Wings
Prerequisite: Improved dragonborn wings feat, 9 ranks in Fly
Benefit: You gain a flying speed of 60 with average maneuverability.
Dragonborn Breath
Prerequisite: Dragonborn, Con 13+
Benefit: You develop a breath weapon of the same energy type as your draconic resistance. It deals 1d6 damage + 1d6 per 3 additional levels (4th, 7th, etc), and the Reflex save DC for half damage is 10 + Con modifier + half your level. It takes the form of either a 60 foot line or a 30 foot cone (choose one when you take this feat), and it can be used 1/day.
Extra Dragonborn Breath
Prerequisite: Dragonborn breath feat
Benefit: You gain one more use per day of your breath weapon.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. The benefit stacks.
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I was thinking how badly I would love to be able to play a Dragon born kind of race. I know this is not Dungeons and Dragons, and I am not sure how one would intro duce such a race into the setting, but I personally think it would be kick ass to be able to play a Dragon born noble Knight or Paladin, or some thing like that. Maybe we could make up the race traits like racial bonus's and stuff.Yeah, the Dragonborn were the only good thing to come out of 4E.
I dont really agree with dragonborn being a good thing myself. However, I digress, if I was going to add Dragonborn I would just use the Dragonkin (much better name IMO) from 3.5 Dragononomicon p.150. There is a table for using them as characters. Of course you will need to Pathfinderize it.
Question. How much "Dragonesque" are we looking for here? Most all Dragons are natural spellcasters. They grow to the extent of changing mulitple size catagories as they age. They all have a particular mindset based generally off their color.
The +2 Cha helps with the spellcasting, so long as they stick with spontaneous casters. And I do think that most dragons cast as SOR, don't they?
But does anyone want the size change? What's more, dragons are also shapeshifters. Now, adding these would overpower the race, IMO, but something for others to consider.
As for the mind set, I would give them +2 Will saves against compulsions. Again, just my 2 copper.
Also, I would love for more race options in general for Pathfinder.
Question. How much "Dragonesque" are we looking for here? Most all Dragons are natural spellcasters. They grow to the extent of changing mulitple size catagories as they age. They all have a particular mindset based generally off their color.
The +2 Cha helps with the spellcasting, so long as they stick with spontaneous casters. And I do think that most dragons cast as SOR, don't they?
But does anyone want the size change? What's more, dragons are also shapeshifters. Now, adding these would overpower the race, IMO, but something for others to consider.
As for the mind set, I would give them +2 Will saves against compulsions. Again, just my 2 copper.
Also, I would love for more race options in general for Pathfinder.
The shapeshifting and size increases might be best accomplished by designing race-specific feats or even Prestige Classes that only the dragonborn can take.
For example, a feat that gives them Powerful Build (1st ot 3rd level), tnen a feat that makes them Large (9th level?), then a feat that makes them Huge (17th level?).
And maybe a Draconic Versatility feat that allows the dragonborn sorcerer to select a number of cleric spells equal to his Charisma bonus and add them to the sorcerer list of spells....he would then need to select them as spells known if he wanted to know them and be able to cast them.
To be honest, I think that the lack of a dragon-esque race is a step in the right direction, i.e. away from the dragon-craze which seemed to creep into 3.5.
Yes, dragons are cool and scaly and groovy...but they don't need to be so common that they and their progeny are seen everywhere. In fact, the more wide-spread their presence becomes in a setting, the less unusual and interesting they become, until you get to the point where they receive the same level of enthusiasm and interest as the inn-keeper who rents the players a room.
Additionally, the large numbers of their progeny has never really made sense to me. Seriously, with the sheer number of half-dragon, dragonborn, and draconic-blooded creatures in most 3.5 products, you'd think that dragons went about the world, shagging everything they encountered.
Thus far, I for one am happy with Paizo's handling of the dragons and their progeny: they are present in the world, but they aren't *everywhere*. They're still there, but they're rare enough to still be a little special and interesting. Just my two cents.
Personally, I'm perfectly good with that as well.
I think a bunch of lizardfolk and maybe some kobolds who run a dragon cult--and a good dragon cult at that--would be amusing and flavorful, and if they want to start turning more into dragons, let them be sorcerers with the dragonblooded line.
But honestly, the 3.5 "dragons shag everything" followed by "Tiamat blows yet more mutant dragon eggs out her butt, seeking to have chromatic dragons fill more ecological niches than Darwin's finches" really did start to get silly.
Lizardfolk already speak draconic and they're set into the world. I think they make perfectly good substitutes for dragonborn and can even call themselves that if they feel like it. However, I don't think any of them except the sorcerers should have figured out how to breathe various breath weapons.
DRAGONBORN
Dragonborn are draconic humanoids with the heads and souls of dragons. Dragonborn are very passionate, and are rarely neutral in alignment.
+2 Constitution, +2 Charisma, -2 Dexterity. Dragonborn are tough and proud, but lacking in grace.
Medium: Dragonborn are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed: Dragonborn have a base speed of 30 feet.
Darkvision: Dragonborn can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
Draconic Heritage: Dragonborn have a varied nature. They may select one of the following racial features at character creation; once it has been selected, it cannot be changed.
Breath Weapon (Su): Once per day, the dragonborn can use a breath weapon that causes energy damage as determined by their elemental nature. Acid and electricity breath weapons are 30 foot long lines. Cold and fire breath weapons are 15 foot long cones. This breath weapon causes 1d6 points of damage per level of the dragonborn. Creatures in the area of effect are allowed to make a Reflex Saving Throw for half damage with a DC of 10 + ½ the dragonborn’s hit dice + the dragonborn’s Constitution modifier. At 5th level, the dragonborn can use his breath weapon twice per day. At 10th level, the dragonborn can use his breath weapon 3 times per day. A dragonborn must wait 1d4 rounds between uses of his breath weapon.
Claws of the Dragon (Ex): The dragonborn has claws that act as 2 primary natural weapons. They cause 1d6 points of damage + the dragonborn’s Strength modifier. At 5th level, they cause 1d8 points of damage. At 10th level, they cause an additional +1d6 points of damage; this additional damage is the same energy type as his elemental nature’s.
Dragon Tail (Ex): The dragonborn has a long powerful tail. This grants him a +4 racial bonus on Acrobatics and Swim skill checks. He also gains a secondary natural attack that does 1d6 + 1 ½ his Strength modifier of bludgeoning damage.
Eye of the Dragon (Ex): The dragonborn has superior lowlight vision, and can see triple the distance of creatures that lack lowlight vision. At 5th level, the dragonborn gains blindsense with a range of 30 feet. At 10th level, the dragonborn’s blindsense increases to 60 feet.
Frightful Presence (Ex): Whenever the dragonborn attacks or charges, all opponents within a radius of 30 feet who have fewer levels or Hit Dice than the dragonborn become shaken for a number of rounds equal to 1d6 + the dragonborn’s Charisma modifier. The effect is negated by a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the dragonborn’s level + her Cha modifier). A successful save indicates that the opponent is immune to the dragonborn’s frightful presence for 24 hours. This ability can’t affect creatures with an Intelligence of 3 or lower, nor does it have any effect on dragons.
Scales of the Dragon (Ex): The dragonborn gains DR 1/magic. This increases to DR 2/magic at 5th level, DR 3/magic at 10th level, DR 4/magic at 15th level, and DR 5/magic at 20th level.
Soul of the Dragon (Ex): The dragonborn is immune to paralysis and sleep effects.
Wings of the Dragon (Ex): A dragonborn can use her wings to glide, negating damage from a fall of any height and allowing 20 feet of forward travel for every 5 feet of descent. Dragonborn glide at a speed of 40 feet (average maneuverability). Even if a dragonborn’s maneuverability improves, she can’t hover while gliding. A dragonborn can’t glide while carrying a medium or heavy load. If a dragonborn becomes unconscious or helpless while in midair, her wings naturally unfurl and powerful ligaments stiffen the wings. The dragonborn descends in a tight corkscrew and takes only 1d6 points of falling damage, no matter what the actual distance of the fall.
When a dragonborn reaches 5 Hit Dice, she becomes able to fly at a speed of 40 feet (average maneuverability). A dragonborn can’t fly while carrying a medium or heavy load or while fatigued or exhausted. Dragonborns can safely fly for a number of rounds equal to their Constitution modifier (minimum 1 round). They can exert themselves to fly for up to twice as long, but then they’re fatigued at the end of the flight. Dragonborns are likewise fatigued after spending a total of more than 10 minutes per day flying. Because dragonborns can glide before, after, and between rounds of actual flight, they can remain aloft for extended periods (even if they can only use flight for 1 round at a time without becoming fatigued).
When they reach 10 Hit Dice, dragonborns have enough stamina and prowess to fly for longer periods. They can fly at a speed of 40 feet (average maneuverability), and flying requires no more exertion than walking or running. A dragonborn with flight can make a dive attack. A dive attack works like a charge, but the dragonborn must move a minimum of 30 feet and descend at least 10 feet. A dragonborn can make a dive attack only when wielding a piercing weapon; if the attack hits, it deals double damage. A dragonborn with flight can use the run action while flying, provided she flies in a straight line.
Draconic Skills: Dragonborn have a +2 racial bonus on Fly and Intimidate skill checks.
Dragon Blood: Dragonborn count as dragons and humanoid (reptilian) for any effect related to race.
Elemental Nature: Dragonborn choose one of the following energy types: acid, cold, electricity, or fire; once it has been selected, it cannot be changed. They gain energy resistance 5 against the selected energy type, but gain vulnerability to the energy type that opposes it. Acid and electricity oppose each other, and cold and fire oppose each other. At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the dragonborn’s energy resistance increases by 5.
Keen Senses: +2 to Perception skill checks.
Natural Armor: Dragonborn have a natural armor bonus of +1.
Languages: Dragonborn begin play speaking Common and Draconic. Dragonborn with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Aquan, Auran, Giant, Ignan, Terran, Undercommon..
Alchemist: +1 per level to bomb damage when the bombs cause energy damage that is the same as the dragonborn’s elemental nature.
Barbarian: +1 to the energy damage and energy resistance of the following rage powers: Elemental Rage, Greater Elemental Rage, Lesser Elemental Rage, Energy Absorption, Energy Eruption, Energy Resistance, and Greater Energy Resistance, but only when the energy damage is the same kind as the dragonborn’s elemental nature’s energy type.
Bard: +½ to the damage caused by the bard’s Inspire Courage ability. This additional damage is the same kind as the dragonborn’s elemental nature’s energy type.
Cavalier: +1 point of damage when using his Challenge. This additional damage is the same kind as the dragonborn’s elemental nature’s energy type.
Cleric: +1 point of damage when using Channel energy to harm opponents. This additional damage is the same kind as the dragonborn’s elemental nature’s energy type.
Oracle: +¼ to the Difficulty Class of spells that have the same energy type as the dragonborn’s elemental nature energy type.
Paladin: +1 point of damage when using Smite Evil. This additional damage is the same kind as the dragonborn’s elemental nature’s energy type.
Rogue: +1 point of damage when using sneak attack. This additional damage is the same kind as the dragonborn’s elemental nature’s energy type.
Sorcerer: +¼ to the Difficulty Class of spells that have the same energy type as the dragonborn’s elemental nature energy type.
Summoner: The dragonborn’s eidolon gains energy resistance 2 per level of the summoner. This energy resistance is the same kind as the dragonborn’s elemental nature’s energy type.
RACIAL TRAITS
Draconic Bite: The dragonborn gains a secondary bite attack that causes 1d4 points of damage + his Strength modifier.
Draconic Focus: The Save DC of the dragonborn’s bonus sorcerer spells known from his draconic bloodline increases by +1.
Draconic Grace: The dragonborn’s flight maneuverability improves by one step. The dragonborn gains a +1 trait bonus to Fly skill checks, and Fly is always a class skill for the dragonborn.
Draconic Invulnerability: The dragonborn gains a +1 bonus on saving throws against the energy type it is vulnerable to due to his elemental nature.
Draconic Mien: The Save DC of the dragonborn’s frightful presence increases by +1. The dragonborn gains a +1 trait bonus to Intimidate skill checks, and Intimidate is always a class skill for the dragonborn.
Draconic Potency: The Save DC of the dragonborn’s breath weapon increases by +1.
Draconic Resolve: The dragonborn gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against sleep and paralysis effects.
Draconic Reverence: The dragonborn sorcerer selects one 0 or 1st level spell from the cleric or druid spell list. He adds this spell to the list of sorcerer/wizard spells he may choose to know. He does not know this spell until he chooses to add it to the list of spells he knows.
Draconic Will: The dragonborn gains a +2 to bonus to Saving Throws against compulsion effects.
** spoiler omitted **...
Okay, I stand corrected. That is amazing, and much more flexible. Kudos on the great rendition! ^_^
** spoiler omitted **...Okay, I stand corrected. That is amazing, and much more flexible. Kudos on the great rendition! ^_^
Thanks!!!
I like flexiblity.
I also REALLY like the idea of racial feats to further customize the dragonborn. Especially since they can provide relatively more powerful abilities that scale with level.
For example....
Improved Scales of the Dragon.
You are more durable than the toughest dragonborn.
Requirements: Dragonborn, Con 15+, Scales of the Dragon racial feature.
Benefit: Your Scales of the Dragon damage reduction improves. It changes from DR/magic to DR/-.
I was thinking the same thing.
I found the below on the interwebs. I am the creator. I do not remember where I found it honestly but, I believe that may be the name of the creator at the top.
Dragonborn Racial Traits
+2 Strength, +2 Charisma, -2 Dexterity; Dragonborn are strong and regal but somewhat clumsy.
Medium Size: Dragonborn have no special penalties or bonuses due to size.
Normal Speed: Base speed for a Dragonborn is 30 feet.
Breath Weapon: Dragonborn can use a breath weapon once every 1d4 rounds. The breath weapon is a line with a range of 5 feet plus 5 feet per Hit Die, to a maximum of 100 feet. It inflicts 1d6 damage plus 1d6 per 3 HD the Dragonborn possesses. This damage may be acid, cold, electricity, or fire; the specific type is chosen at creation and cannot be changed afterward.
Dragon Blood: Dragonborn count as draogons for purposes of effects that affect type.
Skill Bonuses: Dragonborn get a +2 racial bonus to Intimidation and Knowledge (History).
Languages: Dragonborn begin play speaking Common and Draconic. Dragonborn with high Intellegence scores can choose from the following: Elven, Dwarven, Halfling, and Gnome
DRACONIC FEATS
Extra Breath Weapon
You can use your breath weapon more often.
Requirements: Dragonborn, Constitution +15, Breath Weapon racial feature.
Benefit: You can use your breath weapon 2 additional times per day.
Special: You may select this feat more than once. Its effects stacks.
Extra Draconic Heritage
Your draconic heritage is strong
Requirements: Dragonborn, Constitution 13+, Charisma 13+
Benefit: You gain 1 additional Draconic Heritage racial feature.
Special: You may select this feat multiple times. Each time you do, the minimum Constitution and Charisma scores increase by 2. Each time you select this feat, you may select a different Draconic Heritage racial feature.
Extra Draconic Talents
You gain 2 additional draconic talents.
Requirements: Dragonborn, Charisma 11+
Benefit: You gain 2 additional draconic talents.
Special: You may select this feat multiple times. Each time you do, you may select 2 additional draconic talents.
Greater Claws of the Dragon
Your claws cause more energy damage.
Requirements: Dragonborn, BAB +11, Strength 15+, Claws of the Dragon racial feature, Improved Claws of the Dragon.
Benefit: The energy damage of your claws increases to 2d6.
Greater Dragon Tail
You can sweep your tail and strike multiple adjacent opponents.
Requirements: Dragonborn, BAB +7, Strength 15+, Dragon Tail racial feature, Improved Dragon Tail.
Benefit: As a swift action, you may make a number of tail attacks equal to your Strength bonus. Each target of your tail attack must be adjacent to you and at least one other target of your tail attack.
Greater Eye of the Dragon
You can see the truth in all things
Requirements: dragonborn, Wisdom 19+, Eye of the Dragon racial feature, 19 ranks in Perception, Improved Eye of the Dragon.
Benefit: You can use true seeing at will.
Greater Soul of the Dragon
You are extremely resistant to magic
Requirements: Dragonborn, Base Fortitude Save +4, Base Reflex Save +4, Base Will Save +4, Soul of the Dragon racial feature, Improved Soul of the Dragon.
Benefit: You gain spell resistance 11 + your Hit Dice.
Improved Breath Weapon
Your breath weapon is bigger than normal.
Requirements: Dragonborn, Constitution 15+, Breath Weapon racial feature.
Benefit: The size of your breath weapon doubles.
Improved Claws of the Dragon
Your claws cause more damage.
Requirements: Dragonborn, BAB +5, Strength 13+, Claws of the Dragon racial feature.
Benefit: Your base claw damage increases to 2d6.
Improved Draconic Bite
Your bite is more vicious.
Requirements: Dragonborn, BAB +1, Strength 11+, Draconic Bite talent.
Benefits: Your bite attack is a primary natural weapon attack that does 1d6 points of damage + your Strength modifier.
Improved Draconic Reverence
You can cast clerical spells as sorcerer spells.
Requirements: Dragonborn, Sorcerer caster level 3, Charisma 13+, Draconic Reverence talent.
Benefit: Choose a number of spells equal to your Charisma bonus from the cleric list of spells. You must have a Charisma score of 10 + spell level selected. You add the chosen spells to the list of sorcerer spells you may choose to learn. You must still add the selected spells as normal to your list of known spells.
Improved Dragon Tail
You can grapple opponents with your tail.
Requirements: Dragonborn, BAB +3, Strength 13+, Dragon Tail racial feature.
Benefit: When you hit an opponent with your tail attack, you may make a grapple check as a free action. If you succeed, your opponent is grappled. You do not gain the grappled condition when grappling an opponent with your tail. Against an opponent grappled by your tail, once per round as a swift action, you can make a grapple check to constrict your opponent for 1d8 points of damage + 1 ½ your Strength bonus.
Improved Eye of the Dragon
Your draconic senses allow you to see the unseen.
Requirements: dragonborn, Wisdom 13+, Eye of the Dragon racial feature, 15 ranks in Perception.
Benefit: You gain blindsight with a range of 60 feet.
Improved Scales of the Dragon.
You are more durable than the toughest dragonborn.
Requirements: Dragonborn, Constitution 15+, Scales of the Dragon racial feature.
Benefit: Your Scales of the Dragon damage reduction improves. It changes from DR/magic to DR/-.
Improved Soul of the Dragon
You are resistant to magic
Requirements: Dragonborn, Base Fortitude Save +2, Base Reflex Save +2, Base Will Save +2, Soul of the Dragon racial feature.
Benefit: You gain spell resistance 5 + your Hit Dice.
Improved Wings of the Dragon
You fly faster.
Requirements: Dragonborn, Dexterity 11+, Wings of the Dragon racial feature, Fly 11 ranks.
Benefit: Your fly speed increases to 60 feet with good maneuverability.
You realize that this is ridiculous when compared side by side with the core races?
Natural attacks, superior lowlight, darkvision and blindsense, breath weapon, flight, DR, freaking frightful presence? Wow, overpower much?
They get ONE of those abilities. That's not too bad, is it?
A Half Dragon should be about CR +5
CR+2, see below.
Could just go with a Half-Dragon template right out of the Bestiary/SRD, although it takes two levels, and the party must be level 3.
Half-Dragon (CR +2)
Half-Dragon Examples
Dracolisk, Black
Half-dragons are only rarely the result of dragons mating with other creatures—most are the result of strange magical experiments. In most cases, a successful creation breeds true with others of its kind, as with the dreaded dracolisk.
Creating a Half-Dragon“Half-dragon” is an inherited or acquired template that can be added to any living, corporeal creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature). A half-dragon retains all the base creature's statistics and special abilities except as noted here.
CR: Same as the base creature + 2 (minimum 3).
Type: Creature type changes to dragon. Do not recalculate Hit Dice, Base Attack Bonus, or Saving Throws.
Armor Class: Natural Armor bonus improves by +4.
Special Qualities and Defenses: A half-dragon gains darkvision 60 feet; low-light vision; and immunity to sleep, paralysis, and energy of the same type as its breath weapon.
Speed: A half-dragon has wings. Unless the base creature has a better fly speed, the half-dragon can fly at twice the creature's base land speed (average maneuverability).
Melee: A half-dragon has two claw attacks and a bite attack. If the base creature can use manufactured weapons, the half-dragon can as well. A new claw or bite attack deals damage as appropriate for the half-dragon's size (see “Natural Attacks” on pages 301–302).
Special Abilities: A half-dragon retains all the special attacks of the base creature and gains a breath weapon usable once per day based on the dragon variety (see below). The breath weapon deals 1d6 hit points of damage per racial HD possessed by the half-dragon (Reflex half; DC 10 + 1/2 creature's racial HD + creature's Con modifier).
Dragon Variety Breath WeaponAbilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +8, Con +6, Int +2, Cha +2.
Skills: A half-dragon with racial Hit Dice has skill points per racial Hit Die equal to 6 + its Intelligence modifier. Racial class skills are unchanged from the base creature's.
You realize that this is ridiculous when compared side by side with the core races?
Natural attacks, superior lowlight, darkvision and blindsense, breath weapon, flight, DR, freaking frightful presence? Wow, overpower much?
Notice this quote:
Draconic Heritage: Dragonborn have a varied nature. They may select one of the following racial features at character creation; once it has been selected, it cannot be changed.
So you would only get one of the things you listed. It's still more powerful than anything the base races get, but don't make it sound like he's completely lost any semblance of balance.
I did a Dragonborn conversion at www.mediafire.com/ElghinnLightbringer. There is also a few other races I've converted or created for my Campagn setting. Take a look.
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They get ONE of those abilities. That's not too bad, is it?You realize that this is ridiculous when compared side by side with the core races?
Natural attacks, superior lowlight, darkvision and blindsense, breath weapon, flight, DR, freaking frightful presence? Wow, overpower much?
I missed that part. Ok, so it's not insane as it seemed, but still pretty powerful abilities. More so than anything other races get.
I was comparing it to dwarves and elves, which seem pretty powerful to me. Each get several bonus feats, special abilities, lots of defenses and immunities, special vision, etc. etc.
I was comparing it to dwarves and elves, which seem pretty powerful to me. Each get several bonus feats, special abilities, lots of defenses and immunities, special vision, etc. etc.
I think you're really onto something with the custom racial qualities. It just needed a little balance work. I took a stab at rebalancing the Draconic Heritage ability you came up with:
Draconic Heritage: Dragonborn have a varied nature. They may select one of the following racial features at character creation; once it has been selected, it cannot be changed.
Breath Weapon (Su): Once per day, the dragonborn can use a breath weapon that causes energy damage as determined by their elemental nature. Acid and electricity breath weapons are 30 foot long lines. Cold and fire breath weapons are 15 foot long cones. This breath weapon causes 1d6 points of damage +1d6 per even level (2nd, 4th, etc). Creatures in the area of effect are allowed to make a Reflex Saving Throw for half damage with a DC of 10 + ½ the dragonborn’s hit dice + the dragonborn’s Constitution modifier. At 5th level, the dragonborn can use his breath weapon twice per day. At 10th level, the dragonborn can use his breath weapon 3 times per day. A dragonborn must wait 1d4 rounds between uses of his breath weapon.
Claws of the Dragon (Ex): The dragonborn has claws that act as 2 primary natural weapons. They cause 1d4 points of slashing damage + the dragonborn’s Strength modifier. At 5th level, they cause 1d6 points of damage. At 10th level, they cause an additional +1d6 points of energy damage. This additional damage is of the same energy type as his elemental nature.
Dragon Tail (Ex): The dragonborn has an exceptionally useful tail. It grants him a +2 racial bonus on Acrobatics (balance) and Swim skill checks. At 5th level, he can use his tail as a weak third hand, holding objects that weight no more than a number of pounds equal to his Strength modifier (minimum 1). He cannot attack with or throw objects held in his tail. At 10th level, the tail develops to the point where he can use it as a secondary natural attack that deals 1d6 + his Strength modifier points of bludgeoning damage.
Eyes of the Dragon (Ex): The dragonborn has superior lowlight vision, and can see triple the distance of creatures that lack lowlight vision. At 6th level, the dragonborn gains blindsense with a range of 10 feet. At 12th level, the dragonborn’s blindsense increases to 30 feet.
Frightful Presence (Ex): Whenever the dragonborn attacks or charges, all opponents within a radius of 30 feet who have fewer levels or Hit Dice than the dragonborn become shaken for a number of rounds equal to 1 + the dragonborn’s Charisma modifier (minimum 1). The effect is negated by a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the dragonborn’s level + her Charisma modifier). A successful save indicates that the opponent is immune to the dragonborn’s frightful presence for 24 hours. This ability can’t affect creatures with an Intelligence of 3 or lower, nor does it have any effect on dragons.
Scales of the Dragon (Ex): The dragonborn gains DR 1/magic. This increases to DR 2/magic at 6th level, DR 3/magic at 12th level, and DR 4/magic at 18th level.
Soul of the Dragon (Ex): The dragonborn gains a +2 racial bonus versus paralysis and sleep effects. At 5th level, the bonus improves to +4. At 10th level, he gains immunity to these effects.
Wings of the Dragon (Ex): A dragonborn can use her wings to glide, negating damage from a fall of any height and allowing 20 feet of forward travel for every 5 feet of descent. Dragonborn glide at a speed of 40 feet (average maneuverability). Even if a dragonborn’s maneuverability improves, she can’t hover while gliding. A dragonborn can’t glide while carrying a medium or heavy load. If a dragonborn becomes unconscious or helpless while in midair, her wings naturally unfurl and powerful ligaments stiffen the wings. The dragonborn descends in a tight corkscrew and takes only 1d6 points of falling damage, no matter what the actual distance of the fall.
When a dragonborn reaches 6th level, she becomes able to fly at a speed of 40 feet (average maneuverability). A dragonborn can’t fly while carrying a medium or heavy load or while fatigued or exhausted. Dragonborn can safely fly for a number of rounds equal to their Constitution modifier (minimum 1 round). They can exert themselves to fly for up to twice as long, but then they’re fatigued at the end of the flight. Dragonborn are likewise fatigued after spending a total of more than 10 minutes per day flying. Because dragonborn can glide before, after, and between rounds of actual flight, they can remain aloft for extended periods (even if they can only use flight for 1 round at a time without becoming fatigued).
When they reach 12th level, dragonborn have enough stamina and prowess to fly for long periods. They can fly at a speed of 60 feet (average maneuverability), and flying requires no more exertion than walking or running. A dragonborn with flight can make a dive attack. A dive attack works like a charge, but the dragonborn must move a minimum of 30 feet and descend at least 10 feet. A dragonborn can make a dive attack only when wielding a piercing weapon; if the attack hits, it deals double damage. A dragonborn with flight can use the run action while flying, provided she flies in a straight line.
Let me know what you guys think! ^_^
I also thought this might make a good companion feat:
Extra Draconic Heritage
Prerequisite: Dragonborn
Benefit: Choose another draconic heritage.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times.
Your dragon born then look like even if I am only picking 1 -
+2 Con, +2 Cha, -2 Dex
FYI the only 2 reasons the wotc didn't give dragon born a bonus to strength is because they didn't want to completely outclass the half-orc and it would make them too powerful for their weaker races.
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A Golarion-adapted 'dragonborn' race, that owes more to the Spellscales and Arcana Unearthed's Mojh.
It's definitely not anything specifically tied into Bahamut or paladins or that sort of flavor, but there might be stuff there pillageable for inspiration.
I was comparing it to dwarves and elves, which seem pretty powerful to me. Each get several bonus feats, special abilities, lots of defenses and immunities, special vision, etc. etc.I think you're really onto something with the custom racial qualities. It just needed a little balance work. I took a stab at rebalancing the Draconic Heritage ability you came up with:
** spoiler omitted **...
Looks good, except I probably wouldn't nerf the Immunity to Sleep and Paralysis ability. Elves get that already. Also, I play a dragon shaman that got it at 4th level, and I'm 10th level now, and I've never had to use it. Ever. 7 levels of adventuring with no sleep or paralysis effects thrown at me.
The Flight rules in my original version of the dragonborn are based on the 3.5 version of the raptorans from Races of the Wild, which has 1st level gliding, 5th level occasional flight, and 10th level true flight. I then use those levels (1st, 5th, and 10th) as the base line level advancements for the other racial options of the dragonborn.
To be honest, I think that the lack of a dragon-esque race is a step in the right direction, i.e. away from the dragon-craze which seemed to creep into 3.5.
Yes, dragons are cool and scaly and groovy...but they don't need to be so common that they and their progeny are seen everywhere. In fact, the more wide-spread their presence becomes in a setting, the less unusual and interesting they become, until you get to the point where they receive the same level of enthusiasm and interest as the inn-keeper who rents the players a room.
Additionally, the large numbers of their progeny has never really made sense to me. Seriously, with the sheer number of half-dragon, dragonborn, and draconic-blooded creatures in most 3.5 products, you'd think that dragons went about the world, shagging everything they encountered.Thus far, I for one am happy with Paizo's handling of the dragons and their progeny: they are present in the world, but they aren't *everywhere*. They're still there, but they're rare enough to still be a little special and interesting. Just my two cents.
+1. Half-dragons are already there, and they are awesome and RARE. However, I wouldn't mind seeing a "dragonkin" monster in the bestiary II. (;
Humans,
Elves,
Dwarves,
these are all CR 1...Whereas
Gnolls,
Drow,
Dragon-blooded,
are all CR +2A Half Dragon should be about CR +5
This isn't entirely true. A human, elf or dwarf npc-classed 1st level character would be CR 1/3, and pc-classed 1/2. So they essentially have CR = PC class level -1. Gnolls with PC classes would have CR = level +1, but they don't usually have any class levels at all. Drow, aasimar, tieflings, and tengu all belong to the first group; Drow don't have any level adjustment or anything similiar in PFRPG, though drow nobles seem to have CR = level +1 and always has a class.
EDIT: And a half-dragon human has a CR = level +1, for that matter; equal to the drow noble. I don't know if I think it's accurate, seeing their heavy ability modifiers, but it's the RAW (since it's CR +2 from CR = level -1). That said, those figures aren't for PC's but for NPCs.
Yeah, the Dragonborn were the only good thing to come out of 4E.
Not true. This is not a snarky response towards 4e (even though I don't like it) or dragonborn (even though I wouldn't want them in my game, except as maybe a fringe race), but dragonborn were introduced during 3e times.
Dragonborn appeared in 3.5 as an acquired template for devout followers of Bahamut (found in the Races of the Dragon supplement).
Dragonborn appeared in 4e as a separate race (4e's PHB).