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I have a player in my campaign who requested that when he starts taking shadowdancer that he can get a bonus feat to replace the evasion ability since he already has evasion. While I'm not in complete disagreeance with his thoughts, I'm curious what thoughts you all have on the issue? Was the evasion ability only given to shadowdancers for some unknown reason and really had no place being there otherwise? Further I'm not entirely certain that evasion warrants a feat.
I'd think of the evasion ability granted from different classes as being like the martial weapon proficiency granted from different classes or medium armor proficiency from different classes. If you end up with the proficiency from taking another class that grants it, it just doesn't provide an additional benefit. The same with evasion.
The reason shadowdancers get evasion even though rogues have evasion is because rogue is not the only path to shadowdancer, it's just the most apparent one. Granting evasion to the shadowdancer class means that the bard or fighter (or whatever class) who goes shadowdancer gains the ability.
I'm not entirely certain if this is in keeping with the official rulings, but as a house rule, we have decided that if you have Evasion, and then gain levels in another class that offers Evasion later on, it is upgraded to Improved Evasion.
I thought that was the case before I posted, but I checked the rules and that's only the case for Uncanny Dodge. If you have Uncanny Dodge from one class and gain it as a benefit of another, you instead get Improved Uncanny Dodge. Evasion has no such clause in its description. So bumping a second evasion up to improved evasion is a house rule. (Just clarifying since you sounded unsure on whether it was or not.)
I have a player in my campaign who requested that when he starts taking shadowdancer that he can get a bonus feat to replace the evasion ability since he already has evasion. While I'm not in complete disagreeance with his thoughts, I'm curious what thoughts you all have on the issue? Was the evasion ability only given to shadowdancers for some unknown reason and really had no place being there otherwise? Further I'm not entirely certain that evasion warrants a feat.
Would you allow him to buy a feat for 20,000 gp? That's the cost of a ring of evasion. If he gets a ring of evasion can he have the feat instead?
I personally would probably answer no to both of those questions.
I might be persuaded to give him improved lightning reflexes as a bonus feat (without meeting the prerequisites) once instead of evasion. I would not just give him free pick of any feat for it though.
I'm not entirely certain if this is in keeping with the official rulings, but as a house rule, we have decided that if you have Evasion, and then gain levels in another class that offers Evasion later on, it is upgraded to Improved Evasion.
Monk gets improved evasion at 9th level, rogue possibly at 10th if he picks that advanced talent. By the above way of doing it I could walk away with Improved Evasion at 4th level (2 for monk, 2 for rogue). Scary thought.
Not really. Fort and Will save causing attacks are plentiful as well.
Monk gets improved evasion at 9th level, rogue possibly at 10th if he picks that advanced talent. By the above way of doing it I could walk away with Improved Evasion at 4th level (2 for monk, 2 for rogue). Scary thought.
True, but he is still carrying a decent fort and will save due to his monk levels (3 fort, 6 reflex and 3 will instead of the 1 fort, 4 reflex and 1 will of a straight leveled rogue).
Well I'd certainly hope so after he sacked his BAB to +2! :)
+2 is only down 1 point from a 4th level rogue. And now the rogue gets to use a flurry of blows. (+1/+1). Declare the first attack a stunning fist and deny them their dex so your second attack is a sneak attack.
Not sure... but I am going to roll up a rogue / monk...
But I agree with the above way way up there before I got going. Offering Lightning reflexes or possibly a "rogue talent" in place of the second Evasion class feature might just work.
Monk/rogues aside. I think what I'm going to rule is that evasion is only there because there are other paths to shadowdancer, and you're just going to have to "eat" the supposed loss.
I think this is a good idea.
Evasion is IMO one of the most powerful abilities in the game (because so many spells and traps require reflex saves). As Shadowdancers get other cool abilities at 2nd level, it's not like they gain nothing from leveling.
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Monk/rogues aside. I think what I'm going to rule is that evasion is only there because there are other paths to shadowdancer, and you're just going to have to "eat" the supposed loss.I think this is a good idea.
Evasion is IMO one of the most powerful abilities in the game (because so many spells and traps require reflex saves). As Shadowdancers get other cool abilities at 2nd level, it's not like they gain nothing from leveling.
Right, if it were the case all that was gained was evasion, I'd be much more in favor of another bonus.