I don't have any direct advice for you (as I haven't read the class), but I was talking with Russ Taylor about this class at PaizoCon (he wrote it), and I believe we specifically discussed how it would be quite a good class in Kingmaker, potentially.
My suggestion - hedge your bet. The class (from what I know) is pretty effective at what it does - you won't need to bury too much into making them even better. And disguise/stealth is only two skills (with perhaps Bluff/Disable making four) - even a cleric could keep those maxed if needed.
For weapons, the simple dagger is quite useful: melee, thrown, +4 to sleight of hand checks to hide it on your person, finessable, pierce/slash.
I like the Master Spy. It looks like junk if you look at it from a purely combat perspective, but in practice there are so many situations where it pays to be able to disguise yourself as just about anyone.
I would go straight rogue, then into Master Spy starting at 8th. As far as Archetypes go, you can't go wrong with the basic rogue; however, if there is already someone in your group who can take care of traps, consider the Investigator, Spy, and Swashbuckler archetypes. Your GM sounds like he favours a lot of combat, so Swashbuckler might actually be a good choice.
Race: As usual, you can't go wrong with human; however, I really like half-elf and, strangely, half-orc (darkvision, floating +2 ability bonus, and access to what I think is the best feat: Keen Scent). Really, though, you can make a good go with any race.
Abilities: Charisma, obviously. Wisdom is nice for perception and will saves. Dexterity is always great, and int is good for skills, too. Don't dump Str as you're probably going to do some climbing and jumping when sneaking around. You can't really dump anything, but you don't really need 18s, either. If you're on a point-buy system, go for as many 16s and 14s as you can.
Skills: For the most part, take the usual stuff. However, take linguistics, always. The more languages you can speak and read, the better - and being able to make forgeries is incredibly useful to back up your disguises.
Feats: Few builds can make better use of Catch Off-Guard than the Master Spy! Who needs to conceal daggers when you can kill a man with anything not bolted to the floor? Throw Anything is nice, but throwing tends to require more feats to be effective (point-blank shot, precise shot, etc). As with a lot of rogue builds, Improved Initiative is a life-saver and life-taker. I would avoid Childlike, as it only helps you in some odd situations; but Pass as Human is great. If you go for a Dwarf, Stone Faced is a brilliant feat. If you go for Half-Orc, Keen Scent could be very useful (being able to identify people by smell, being able to tell where someone has been by tracking their scent, etc). There are a lot of super Rogue Talents, so consider Extra Rogue Talent.
Rogue Talents: Quick Disguise is a no-brainer. You don't get the Master Spy's Quick Change ability for a long time, and even when you get it it's nice to have the option to choose between the two abilities. There are too many great ones, though: Canny Observer, Coax Information, Fast Picks, Hard to Fool and Honeyed Words are all great choices. If you're a half-orc with Keen Scent, consider Follow Clues to be better at tracking. Minor Magic could be useful - I'd choose Message, which would let you chat up your allies at a distance while sneaking around. Combat Trick is always great.
Equipment: Hat of disguise ASAP please, and disguise kits don't hurt. Anything that will help you sneak stuff around (bag of holding, glove of storing) is super.
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Firstly - I have not seen any APG stuff... my mate in England is buying me the PDF for my birthday.
23rd of October if you must know. Cash only please.
So, now that we've established that I've no credentials for comment and my birthday is soon and giving me cash is a good, fun-filled way to make my /the world a better place....
- How to do damage as a spy: You tell THOSE GUYS that THOSE OTHER GUYS think they're chumps and provide the documentation to prove it. You then helpfully inform selected parties about who will be where and when it'd be best to crack whoever over the head repeatedly with something blunt and heavy.
- Halfings are all thieving swines - only a fool trusts a Halfling. They're desugned/bred for larceny. All of them. No exceptions. Halfings caught in the wrong place at the right time are immediately reduced to a fine meaty mist by anyone with any sense.
- Bard = spy? Taking into account my first INCREDIBLY HELPFUL AND INFORMATIVE suggestion regarding how to do damage as a spy, a bard also has spells to help with infiltration, impersonation (I am the Captain of the Gaurd - go on, cast your spells on my to prove otherwise! I MOCK THEE non-too-high-level SPELLCASTER/S!) and when everyone is ripping into each other you can claim that BOTH FACTIONS ARE YOUR ALLIES and buff them with your bardic awesomeness. Maximized bloodshed for everyone! :)
Given the description of your DM and your desire for Master Spy, I would build something like this:
Race: Human
• Favored Class Bonus: HP
• Heart of the Wilderness (replacing skilled trait)
• Traits: Dirty Fighter, Carefully Hidden
Urban Ranger 3 – Favored Enemy Humanoid (Human)
Acrobat Rogue 3 – Rogue Talent: Weapon Finese
Feats: Rngr – TWF, Rog: - Weapon Finesse, H – Iron Will, 1 – WF (Dagger), 3 – Deceitful, 5 – TWD
First off, if you want to get a better feel for kingmaker you might look into the Player's Guide for it (completely legal for players to look though, really) Kingmaker player's guide
Secondly, if you're worried about dealing damage, take the improved feint feat. With you bluff maxed out you should pretty much be able to always sneak attack, even without allies flanking or having to hide all the time. My only other recommendation is buying at least a light crossbow, there are just some people/things that you do NOT want to stand next to.
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You DM sounds like some one I know. That wold be me. I normaly taler adventure paths and modules by chaning how the NPC are built. Almost all NPC and Monstars are built for avrage chalange. By chaning how thay are built you can incress the dificulty with out changing the CR. The bigest problem I have with Monster and NPC. 95% of there feet slection is eather done bad with the knowlange thay are bad, or by some one that realy dose not know the game. I'm guessing its the first to make it easyer on new players.
This is a RPG and you can play any thing you want to. On the other hand don't blame the DM becous you brought a theamed charter to the game. Not all theams work well in all games. Take a theam and then find out how to make him better then the avrage. Spy Master is a good example of a theam that over all reduces the effectivens of a rogue. You can make a Rogue with the Spy alternate class features. This is a better over all option. Most of the Spy Masters abilitys can be done with rogue talents. But this is all my opion. It's up to you to decide what you want to play.
As far as bards go it hurts you even more to take any other class. Alot of what makes a bard so good at what thay do is level dependent. Right now im playing a bard in my curent game. My group hase taken to calling him the barninja. Becous I am playing him like a realy world ninja. Over the corse of about a year he hase made ties to most of the underworld in the city he lives in. He hase become the information broker for his part of the city. Real ninjas did do assassionations but thay where primarly information brokers and stealer of secrets. The later is what so meny in Japan feard and hated them. The Ninja or the people that hired them where black mailing them.
Now for the part that gets confusing. I'm playing in the counsel of theaves adventur path. I made friends with the Bellflower net work. Then I made my underworld contacts. So the information broker stuff is just to cover up that im working for the Bellflower net work. And all that is to cover up that im a Lions Blade working for Taldor. Know a better way to keap people from looking to well at what your realy doing?
Long live the Barninja!
Given the description of your DM and your desire for Master Spy, I would build something like this:
Race: Human
• Favored Class Bonus: HP
• Heart of the Wilderness (replacing skilled trait)
• Traits: Dirty Fighter, Carefully Hidden
Urban Ranger 3 – Favored Enemy Humanoid (Human)
Acrobat Rogue 3 – Rogue Talent: Weapon FinesseFeats: Rngr – TWF, Rog: - Weapon Finesse, H – Iron Will, 1 – WF (Dagger), 3 – Deceitful, 5 – TWD
Also, for abilities, you may consider:
Str 14, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 10While it may seem a little counter-intuitive to not pump up your Cha, you'll have plenty of skill points to keep the social skills maxed. Further, with points in con and str, you'll have a higher degree of combat-worthiness.
I think taking a level or two of assassin before master spy is a great idea. Remember "ability focus: death attack" could be a good 7th level feat to keep the dc high.
Whatever you do, don't do 5 Rog, 2 Ass (or 6/1) - you lose three BAB that way, then I assume another at level one of Master Spy. That's +4 BAB at 8th level.
7 Rog would work fine. 4 Rogue, 1 Ranger, 2 Assassin would work also, but that's getting complicated.
I'm a bit late to this thread but I have been looking over the master spy quite a bit and think the following could be some excellent ways to go into it:
Empty hand monk -- You don't really need weapons in this case since everything you find is potentially a weapon. The lack of armor needed combined with the fact that you are going to want a decent wisdom score anyways means that you can stay in your pretty clothes or disguise and still be prepared for a fight. The death attack and sneak attack damage you'll pick up from master spy helps combined nicely with your many attacks. I would suggest going to 8th level in monk before going into master spy so you get your virtual Improved two weapon fighting. While the monk is normally pretty MAD already the fact that you'll pick up some sneak attack means you can afford a bit lower strength than normal. I would suggest piranha strike instead of power attack with this build since it's a dex based feat.
Urban Druid -- Ok this gives you everything you're going to want except trapfinding. At level 6 you get at will unlimited alter self spell access -- forget the disguise kit this gets the job done for you! Level 8 brings in wild shape for those times where a humanoid disguise just won't cut it and level nine gives out right immunity to most enchantment spells. Combined with spell casting you are a versitle jack in the box ready to give the party what it needs when it needs it. The fact you have medium BAB and are again getting sneak attack and death attack helps with the fact you are going to give up spell access when you go into master spy (in fact that mid level spell access can help you better disguise yourself as a cleric/oracle or wizard). You'll need to be very tactical with your abilities with this build though -- you have spells but at higher levels not so much -- you have BAB... but not much to back it up, so plan carefully for different things to do in combat -- look for opportunities to set your allies up or delay the opponent since you probably won't contribute directly to the damage dealt.
Sandman Bard -- Not much to not like about this one. You have sneak attack going into master spy as well as trapfinding, bonuses to skills master spy gives bonuses too, medium BAB, great skill points and the ability to steal spells from your enemies (and allies!) as well as to cast spells unnoticed. Your abilities/spells available will lend themselves well to pretending to be just about any of the normal classes so if acting the part of a cleric you have the magic to make it seem like you are (same with wizard or sorcerer).
Alchemist/rogue -- The balance on this one is the tricky part. Alchemist offers tons of different ways to do things you normally won't do. Halfling is a great choice for this combo, and taking the master alchemist feat would be a good idea since poisons are about your best friend with this. I probably wouldn't take more than 2~4 rogue levels -- we are looking for trapfinding and maybe a few quick "give mes" before we move on. The infusion ability would keep you friends with everyone in the party while feral mutagens will help you keep your attacks effective (since they'll all be at your full BAB and have sneak attack as often as you can manage). The biggest problem is this build takes some time to get off the ground, because of all the abilities you are mixing together.
Depends.
On the empty hand monk I would go to level 8 monk first since you get an extra attack then, and it's just "one more level". Honestly I would not take master spy past level 9 -- as far as I'm concerned personal mind blank all day every day for free is the capstone ability. With that I would go back to monk to get my last three levels, since level 11 monk (especially empty hand) gives some kicking abilities.
With the urban druid I would go to druid 8 then master spy maybe coming back for one or two more druid levels after master spy 9 -- urban druid gets nice things at levels 8~10 so it's worth coming back to.
With the sandman I would probably jump ship as quickly as I can and come back to it later -- it's pretty front loaded for a base class so losing those later abilities doesn't feel so bad.
With fighter it would depend completely on what feats I'm looking at using. If I was going to go fighter I would probably mix in some levels in rogue just for the skills/trapfinding/reflex saves/rogue tricks.
Witch can work well too but that is a lot more difficult to make it through and the synergy isn't quite as good.
But overall considering what most classes get and at what levels I would probably end up "Base class 8/master spy 9" as my entry and drop points.
On the choice of entry level, I would note that you will only reach (about) 17th level in Kingmaker.That is going to change the way I do things drasticly. Hmmmm much to think about then. Much ponderings.
Anyway Abraham, I've got a lot to chew on now. Honestly for specifically Kingmaker I will likely take the sandman idea so that I can front load and get to Master Spy with a quickness. The only thing is that I think Assumption could be very powerful in Kingmaker, especially if I want to kill someone off and assume their position for a time.
But yes, the mind blank is the greatest ability bar none....I just have a hard time convincing myself to not grab the last ability.
Yeah don't get me wrong: Assumption is a wonderful ability -- for an NPC. Getting it to work, and in a situation that you can use it, as a PC without GM fiat screwing you over (or GM metagaming as I generally like to call it) or leaving your friends bored from waiting for you to finish your three hour solo mission can be tricky in the extreme.
Bard is the one class I would go into master spy as soon as possible with -- you really don't lose much (if anything) and it gets better as you go on.
IF you want something else to follow the master spy up with (currently going to master spy 9 you are looking at having a level left) I would suggest either assassin (which increases your death attack DC, sneak attack, etc) or arcane trickster (since you qualify with bard levels alone). If you really want to Arcane archer for a level could be decent since it gives full armor and weapon proficiency to you, while dragon disciple offers some slight perks as well (get a robe of arcane heritage so you could as sorcerer level 5 for your bloodline powers).
Yup not like you don't have plenty of time to think it over!