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We came across a scenario where flaming sphere was used to cause damage to two different targets in the same round (see below). This seems legal, but I'd like to hear what others think.
Round 1: Wizard casts flaming sphere and puts in on Target 1. Target 1 takes damage, but opts not to leave its space to get away from the sphere (target was a fighter engaged in melee).
Round 2: At the start of his turn, the wizard tells the DM that Target 1 takes damage from the sphere since it starts out in his space. The wizard then moves the sphere to Target 2, which now also takes damage.
This seems legal, and it probably only happens in rare situations where the original target decides not to move away from the sphere or is immobilized.
Thoughts/comments/insults? =P
Thx
We came across a scenario where flaming sphere was used to cause damage to two different targets in the same round (see below). This seems legal, but I'd like to hear what others think.
I'd say no but it could go either way. The sphere technically does damage when it enters another creatures space, not when it just happens to be there. So it can spend round 2 burning the fighter OR the new victim but not both.
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I would say a clear no.
Here is the relevant description from the spell:
If it enters a space with a creature, it stops moving for
the round and deals 3d6 points of fire damage to that creature,
though a successful Reflex save negates that damage.
It doesn't say anything it is doing damage at the start AND at the end of it's movement.
If you want to damage the person in the same sphere - just don't move it.
Othervice you would have a free Coup-De-Grace style death every single time a flaming sphere would have reduced a victim below zero HP. And 3d6 fire damage while unconcious and no reflex therefore would more or less kill nearly every normal character.
Alternativly you could argue it can't leave a square if there is already a person in as it doesn't need to enter the space it already is on. But again - damage would only be dealt once. So as a GM I would always allow a sphere to move - but damage dealt is only once.
A different question is - does it do damage against two creatures (tiny or sqeezing) in the same square. This would be in my view a correct application of doing damage more than once.
Thod
+1 for the two posts above
you can't look at this realisticly, the end of the turn before is the same damage as the one at the beginning of the second turn.
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i thought its possible to use 2 move actions on the second round to roll the sphere into two opponents spaces. it stops when it enters the space of a creature, but then you can use your second action to move it again.
you're doing 3d6 to two creatures possibly, but you're also giving up your standard action and not casting some other spell as well as moving the sphere.
i'd say it wouldn't damage the creature who's square it starts in, unless the caster leaves the sphere resting there.
i thought its possible to use 2 move actions on the second round to roll the sphere into two opponents spaces. it stops when it enters the space of a creature, but then you can use your second action to move it again.
you're doing 3d6 to two creatures possibly, but you're also giving up your standard action and not casting some other spell as well as moving the sphere.
i'd say it wouldn't damage the creature who's square it starts in, unless the caster leaves the sphere resting there.
it stops for the round so once you use one move action to move it into a creature its stuck.
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My interpretation is that once the sphere finds a target it stops moving and stays in that square doing damage, giving up the rest of its move action, so I would have said that the sphere needs to stay with its first target unless that target moves on, leaving the sphere free to be moved to another target.
But I see your point and would like to get this straight since I have a player that loves this spell and this situation could easily come up.
I agree with most of the comments here, which are very common sense and game balanced.
The spell's intent seems to be that it only affects one target each round, and that if it starts out in one target's square at the start of a round, you can either choose to leave it in that target's square (and cause damage to it), or move the sphere to another target (in which case the original target takes no damage). Thus, the sphere can't cause damage to two different targets in two different squares in the same round.
Thod's question about whether it would affect more than one tiny target at once is interesting, and I think that would be a DM's call. It seems to make sense that the 5ft. diameter sphere would damage more than one creature if they were small enough to all fit in one 5ft. square. From a common sense perspective, that makes sense. From a game balance perspective, it could be argued that it's overpowered.
Othervice you would have a free Coup-De-Grace style death every single time a flaming sphere would have reduced a victim below zero HP. And 3d6 fire damage while unconcious and no reflex therefore would more or less kill nearly every normal character.
Note that there's nothing preventing you from making a reflex save when unconcious. Your dexterity modifier is -5 due to being helpless, but you can still make the saving throw (if nothing else on a nat20) and even use evasion if you have it.
I find it hard to give credence to any argument about flaming sphere being overpowered. It's quite possibly the worst 2nd level damage-dealing spell in the game, which makes it quite possibly the worst 2nd level spell in the game.
I find it hard to give credence to any argument about flaming sphere being overpowered. It's quite possibly the worst 2nd level damage-dealing spell in the game, which makes it quite possibly the worst 2nd level spell in the game.
I like it a lot for low level fights that are going to go more than a couple rounds. Each round after you cast it, you cast something else or do something else useful with your standard action, and spend your move to move the sphere. Not bad. If the target makes the save, at least you only spent an often-unneeded move action on it.
That being said, I can't really imagine using it anymore once 4th level spells are out and it's a little iffy once even the 3rds are out.
Add a smoke cloud from Pyrotechnics from it. A movable ball of death and debuffing.
I don't know what the official stance on this is (it's something I've always taken for granted) but the way I learned to play turn-based rules is that each round is 6 seconds long and that things that happen at each initiative are actually happening simultaneously (but for sake of ease and game play it is acted out "in order").
So if you move the sphere in one round and it "stops" in a square where it deals damage, it isn't necessarily STOPPED. So when the next round comes up where the sphere moves again, it could be treated as if it only slowed down (having to force it's spongy consistency over the target) but it is still moving. This works for "realism" and game mechanics. The damage dealt last round is "still happening" this round because the two instances are seamless.
Game time and real time are often VERY difficult to map together, so I can see why the DM might have ruled the way he did, but it was wrong. The sphere only does damage at the end of the move action (which is not the same as the end of it's movement in "real time").
That said, I really like Flaming Sphere as a spell. I have used it a lot when playing as a druid, and have seen it used by enemies very effectively in narrow corridors. All spells have utility, it's just a matter of how creatively they are used.