RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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I am a player in a Kingmaker game (almost done with book 1), and although we haven't actually founded our kingdom yet, my group is starting to think about how to create a stable kingdom that will last a long while. We would like to have a good kingdom with a strong government that will actually be able to get things done, but at the same time avoid corruption and make sure that the government actually does what's best for its people.
I'm thinking here less in terms of the Kingmaker game itself, and more about the long term. Where is this kingdom going to be in 200 or 500 years? So, mainly, I'm interested in ways to both keep the government from paralyzing itself and to make sure that it doesn't fall into corruption.
Ordinarily, I would turn to the Church as a check on the monarchy. However, as we know from Earth history, churches (and the officials in them) will often look out for their own interests, especially after a long time in power. So I would like to avoid that as a solution.
So far, the best idea I have come up with is some kind of magic item (say, the royal crown) with a continual detect evil spell on it. If the King or Queen ever becomes evil, the gems in the crown will all turn grey (or something) and the ruler must then abdicate the throne in favor of the next in line of succession who is not evil.
Do any of you have good ideas for how to end up with a just government? What have your groups done to check the power of the King, while still giving him the authority to rule effectively?
You could implement a third component to incorporate checks and balances. Perhaps you have King, Church and Knowledge as the three balancing elements.
Compared to U.S.: King = Executive branch, Church = Supreme Court, Knowledge = Legislature.
One of the first things my group did was to write up a constitution of sorts, establishing who they were, who would rule (and how that ruler could be replaced), basic rights, fredom for slaves, freedom of religion, etc. Something like this, a Magna Carta, Bill of Rights or similar document, will go far in establishing a contract with your people, so everyone has an idea of what your country is about (both you the players and the people coming to live there).
So far, the best idea I have come up with is some kind of magic item (say, the royal crown) with a continual detect evil spell on it. If the King or Queen ever becomes evil, the gems in the crown will all turn grey (or something) and the ruler must then abdicate the throne in favor of the next in line of succession who is not evil.
Plot wise, wouldn't be great to have said evil ruler try to hide that he is now evil (evil won't give up power so easilly), or having a character to be next in succession line and at the death of the current ruler, find out that the magic crown isn't working anymore or have been tempered with and don't work as originally intended?
I am a player in a Kingmaker game (almost done with book 1), and although we haven't actually founded our kingdom yet, my group is starting to think about how to create a stable kingdom that will last a long while. We would like to have a good kingdom with a strong government that will actually be able to get things done, but at the same time avoid corruption and make sure that the government actually does what's best for its people.
I'm thinking here less in terms of the Kingmaker game itself, and more about the long term. Where is this kingdom going to be in 200 or 500 years? So, mainly, I'm interested in ways to both keep the government from paralyzing itself and to make sure that it doesn't fall into corruption.
Ordinarily, I would turn to the Church as a check on the monarchy. However, as we know from Earth history, churches (and the officials in them) will often look out for their own interests, especially after a long time in power. So I would like to avoid that as a solution.
So far, the best idea I have come up with is some kind of magic item (say, the royal crown) with a continual detect evil spell on it. If the King or Queen ever becomes evil, the gems in the crown will all turn grey (or something) and the ruler must then abdicate the throne in favor of the next in line of succession who is not evil.
Do any of you have good ideas for how to end up with a just government? What have your groups done to check the power of the King, while still giving him the authority to rule effectively?
Did the DM allow you to see the rules for building the kingdom. If so I have advice, but if not then uh I am limited in what I can say. I will say this, make sure you keep building the kingdom so you are not far behind.
I like Babylon 5 they have they Grey Council wich is a council elected by the people for the people. It is 9 people 5 from the worker Cast, 2 from religion and 2 from millitary as religion and war are supposed to serve the people. Then the 9 on the council vote amongst themselves
and elect a speaker for them and the people :)
Personally I wouldnt go religion I would go 2 from magick and have 2 wizards on the council and have whatever Chirches temples etc in the area send representatives and have them get together and form an advisory council to advise the Grey Council :) ADVISE ONLY!
I wouldnt give a chirch too much power...
I would have them draw up a constitution as well :)
I would have lots of farming and set up lots of trade routs as well :)
Then I would have the Councils Rangers - A group of Rangers who patroll the Realm and outside the Realm to insure the safety of the people.
Also the Councils Lanterns - a group of Fighter Rogues and Fighter Bards who are the spies, sabotours, information gatherers and messangers...
I would set up a Monestery in the area and I would have the low level monks work with the city watch and constabulary as part of the training :) Immagine in evry group of city watch a Lawful Good Monk on the look out for cutpurses and muggers... the crime rate would drop dramatically :)
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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I'm liking the Grey Council idea. . . they lasted 1000 years, didn't they? Of course, they also had Valen to start them off, but still. . .
We'll definitely be doing a "Constitution" of some kind, whether we call it that or not. I want to put in some checks and balances; the tricky bit is that I want to make sure that there is still enough flexibility to get things done.
One of my friends suggested looking into ancient China. Apparently, they had a system where there was some kind of test in order to become a government official. That would at least tend to cut down on the idiot factor.
Wraithstrike, we haven't been told the kingdom building rules yet. I'm not sure whether that's because we just haven't gotten that far yet, or because our DM doesn't want to reveal them. I'd guess that he'll probably be telling us how things work pretty soon, but I'm not 100% sure. Probably best to play it safe and avoid possible spoilers ;-)
You should have a blast with building your kingdom. One idea, based on the Confucian comments, is to establish your govornment as a feudal-meritocracy.
Once I finish my conversions/upgrades, as a GM it seems opportune to "build" a shadow kingdom ahead of the players, complete with recording a timeline of how the shadow kingdom develops. I do not know how many others are doing this, although this will help my familiarity with that rules set.
Ya I wouldnt call it a constitution either... to corny... You could still have a crystal of alignment detection and nobody who isnt of good alignment gets to be on the council :) Have a pc who has craft wonderous item make it or higher a wizard you can trust :)
As the campaign ends at level 16... absolute monarchy with the bunch of immortal rulers (the simplest way to achieve this - that doesn't require distasteful things, like undeath - still is Reincarnate shenanigans, that can be replicated through Limited Wish) is the most realistic option.
So far, the best idea I have come up with is some kind of magic item (say, the royal crown) with a continual detect evil spell on it. If the King or Queen ever becomes evil, the gems in the crown will all turn grey (or something) and the ruler must then abdicate the throne in favor of the next in line of succession who is not evil.
I hate to shoot you down, but this is not a great idea. Something like this is pretty much a beacon to evil schemers to play with this one. Just because the ruler is not evil doesn't mean that they can't get bad advice and do well intentioned things that turn out horribly horribly wrong. And two good people and disagree on the best way to go.
A solid justice system is the best way to start IMO. A non-biased court system that is routed in fairness and justice serves as a check on injustice and fairness. Then you need laws that based on that same justice and fairness. Lastly you need a body that enforces those laws.
The problem is is that evil will always be a problem. Evil things (sub-prime loans, tobacco industry, etc) always make more money than good things (puppy dogs, role playing games, and so on). Sooner or later, someone with money will pay some poorly paid enforcer to look the other way. And they will take it because they want what someone else has or want to be one step ahead of everyone else. Communism tried to eliminate that, but it did a poor job because it merely tried to remove the human in the human condition. The only other way to combat evil in that fashion is to have your government change and adapt with time. The problem with that is that it allows evil to enter the system. Its the difference between a sculpture of a human vs a living human that contracts cancer. Take your pick, one is a non-living hunk of stone the other is going to get a growth where it doesn't belong and will eventually kill it.
The only real way to have a true lasting society is to replace all the humans with robots. Anything short of that is a lost cause. My best recommendation: just do what you can and let the chips fall where they may.
But that is just my opinion. YMMV.
We established 3 governing bodies.
1. Two elected leaders from the FOUNDER'S COUNCIL. One is PRIMUS (the civilian leader) and the other is elected IMPERATOR (the military leader). Both have equal say. Only those with the blood of the founding members of our kingdom (the PCs) may occupy these positions. They have veto power over senate laws, but do not control the treasury, except in times of war.
2. PEOPLE'S SENATE which is made up of elected official from any towns of more than 200 people in our kingdom. They have veto power over the laws created by the PRIMUS and IMPERATOR, and control of the treasury, except during times of war.
3. ASSEMBLY OF TRIBES which is composed of the non-citizen groups that live within our borders; they have a say, but cannot make laws nor veto laws proposed by the others.
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Obviously there are many inherent flaws in the system, but we've enjoyed the political debate around the game table. Especially when it came time to sign treaties with our neighbors... (heh heh).
We have progressed beyond the Kingmaker adventure path and we're now into our original PC's childrens' generation. The in-fighting and political wrangling is awesome! We're expecting that since leaders have to provide their lineage we're going to be playing at some point where the kingdom has no rulers; opening doors for more adventuring with new characters.... perhaps far off decendants of the founders.
I like the Reincarnation Idea, and for the 2 on the council from the mages guild... you could get a Gnome and a Elf, in this world they are potentially immortal so... or you could ask a Gold Dragon to be on the council... :)
So far the group we are playing with have had a king, he's the paladin for the group. we haven't even come close to start writing up anything resembling a bill of rights. as far as the future goes, our goal is to take over as much of the world as we can, and when we die watch it all fall into chaos. we are fans of tradition.
Sort of the Camelot thing ;)
Based on my own experimentation, I would suggest a "town template" wherein a given group figures out their kingdom's ideal grid for 8 of the 9 districts. The 9th is saved for a waterfront, swapped out for a different district set up when the town has no water border.