Eldritch Knight questions

[Alex Jordan]

I know its supposed to be difficult to build a versatile character like this, and that the key thing to do is focus on the versatility, but does anyone have any suggestions for a 9th level Eldritch Knight using the base classes? Ive run through a 5wiz/1fight/3EK build but i feel like its off-kilter and the ac im getting with it isn't up to snuff with even the main-line wizards of the group. Simply, if anyone can, i'd like to have input on how to make a 9th level EK. Probably elf or half elf race.

[Quantum Steve]

What AC are your wizards running? With Mage Armor, Shield, and Dex an EK should be able to pull off a 20 AC easy.

Alternatively, pick up Still Spell and wear Full Plate. Add a Shield spell for AC 24 and that's before rings, amulets, and ioun stones.

[Cold Napalm]

Alex Jordan wrote:

I know its supposed to be difficult to build a versatile character like this, and that the key thing to do is focus on the versatility, but does anyone have any suggestions for a 9th level Eldritch Knight using the base classes? Ive run through a 5wiz/1fight/3EK build but i feel like its off-kilter and the ac im getting with it isn't up to snuff with even the main-line wizards of the group. Simply, if anyone can, i'd like to have input on how to make a 9th level EK. Probably elf or half elf race.

Umm how is the AC an issues compared to the casters?!? You should be using mithril studded leather armor and small shield for 10% ASF. Both of those at +3 is +10 to AC...something casters shouldn't be touching at those levels. Also you have mirror image and displacment.

As far as making a sucessful EK...the issue isn't being verstile, it's being a spell caster. Use feats to boost what style of combat you wanna do when your wading through mooks, and then just pump out spell as needed. The EK is a caster...with a splash of fighting. Don't let the full BAB thing fool you.

[Icaste Fyrbawl]

Cold Napalm wrote:

Alex Jordan wrote:

I know its supposed to be difficult to build a versatile character like this, and that the key thing to do is focus on the versatility, but does anyone have any suggestions for a 9th level Eldritch Knight using the base classes? Ive run through a 5wiz/1fight/3EK build but i feel like its off-kilter and the ac im getting with it isn't up to snuff with even the main-line wizards of the group. Simply, if anyone can, i'd like to have input on how to make a 9th level EK. Probably elf or half elf race.

Umm how is the AC an issues compared to the casters?!? You should be using mithril studded leather armor and small shield for 10% ASF. Both of those at +3 is +10 to AC...something casters shouldn't be touching at those levels. Also you have mirror image and displacment.

As far as making a sucessful EK...the issue isn't being verstile, it's being a spell caster. Use feats to boost what style of combat you wanna do when your wading through mooks, and then just pump out spell as needed. The EK is a caster...with a splash of fighting. Don't let the full BAB thing fool you.

Actually I disagree about casters not touching AC. I make a habit of using mithral chain shirt as a caster. I do understand your idea behind the shield though. More items to plus up. But my question is, can you actually make "mithral studded leather" when the majority of studded leather is...well...leather?

As for your EK, decide what you want to be. A spell caster that can fight or a fighter with some spells. If it's the latter, wait off on the EK until you have five levels of fighter (for that wonderful weapon training) or how ever many levels makes you happy. Then plan your spells accordingly (and always have HASTE prepared). It appears you've already done the former with the wiz 5/ftr 1/ek X

[Cold Napalm]

Icaste Fyrbawl wrote:

Actually I disagree about casters not touching AC. I make a habit of using mithral chain shirt as a caster. I do understand your idea behind the shield though. More items to plus up. But my question is, can you actually make "mithral studded leather" when the majority of studded leather is...well...leather?

As for your EK, decide what you want to be. A spell caster that can fight or a fighter with some spells. If it's the latter, wait off on the EK until you have five levels of fighter (for that wonderful weapon training) or how ever many levels makes you happy. Then plan your spells accordingly (and always have HASTE prepared). It appears you've already done the former with the wiz 5/ftr 1/ek X

According to the gamemastery guide, yes studded leather can be made of mithril. As for the wizard doing it...unless he plans on paying a feat tax, he can not use arcane armor training.

And for the advice of doing the fighter 5/wizard 5 before entering EK...that's a HORRIBLE advice. I'm sorry...but no. If you want something that is mostly martial with a splash of magic and your not doing the archer route, there currently isn't one.

[Quantum Steve]

Cold Napalm wrote:

According to the gamemastery guide, yes studded leather can be made of mithril. As for the wizard doing it...unless he plans on paying a feat tax, he can not use arcane armor training.

And for the advice of doing the fighter 5/wizard 5 before entering EK...that's a HORRIBLE advice. I'm sorry...but no. If you want something that is mostly martial with a splash of magic and your not doing the archer route, there currently isn't one.

Which "Gamemastery Guide" would that be? Do you mean the "Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook"? Well, let's see what it says.

"Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral."

"Studded Leather:Similar to leather armor, this suit is reinforced with small metal studs."

So I guess it depends on whether you consider "small metal studs" to be "primarily of metal". (I was kind of hoping for a more definitive answer, oh well.)

This also assumes that Arcane Armor Training which "reduce[s] the arcane spell failure chance due to the armor you are wearing" and makes no mention of shields, does, in fact, apply to shields.

Of course for 1000 extra gp, you could wear mithral chain and a mithral shield with the same ASF and +1AC and absolutely no hint of rule ambiguity.

Also, Arcane Armor Training means you can never use your EK capstone. :(

You are right about Ftr 5/Wiz 5, total garbage. Never, ever. EK gives you feats, spells and stacks for fighter feats and is better than Ftr in every way. +1 to damage is in no way worth being a lv 10 crappy Ftr/crappy Wiz.

[Maezer]

I just don't see it. Your wizard is beating on AC? What do you consider a competitive AC at level 9?

For AC issues you have shield/mithral buckler, mage armor/mithral shirt or breastplate, and top it off with alter self. You should be competitive AC wise.

I am a big fan of the eldrich knight being a diviner as well. Always being able to act in the surprise round and a bonus to initiative gives a better chance to get buffs up. The new Foresight specialization is a boon to the eldritch knight as well. The teleportation specialization should as get consideration.

I'd consider going Wizard 6/Fighter 1/EK X. The 6th level of Wizard gives you +1 to every save, +1 BAB, its probably your favored class so you only lose 1 hp on average. And everything that triggers of wizard levels gets s tiny bump.

[Cold Napalm]

Game mastery guide page 118. The special material list for studded leather is metal. Hence you can have mithril studded leather armor.

AAT and shield is a bit ambigious as the core rules tends to kinda contridict itself on this matter. I hope they address this in the FAQ. So yes I suppose you can do the mithril chain shirt and shield.

[Alex Jordan]

Competitive AC is mid-20s at 9th level, in my eyes. I also got ruined in the beginning due to my then-GM being a little heavy handed in the combat section and ruthless as a...thing thats ruthless? Even now, my GM is a bit ruthless in combat. SO what is the foresight specialization? the Diviner wizard school?

[Quantum Steve]

Cold Napalm wrote:

Game mastery guide page 118. The special material list for studded leather is metal. Hence you can have mithril studded leather armor.

AAT and shield is a bit ambigious as the core rules tends to kinda contridict itself on this matter. I hope they address this in the FAQ. So yes I suppose you can do the mithril chain shirt and shield.

I see. I was unaware of this "GameMastery Guide" (what an odd name) I'll have to check it out. Did you find it to be worth it?

[Cold Napalm]

Quantum Steve wrote:

Cold Napalm wrote:

Game mastery guide page 118. The special material list for studded leather is metal. Hence you can have mithril studded leather armor.

AAT and shield is a bit ambigious as the core rules tends to kinda contridict itself on this matter. I hope they address this in the FAQ. So yes I suppose you can do the mithril chain shirt and shield.

I see. I was unaware of this "GameMastery Guide" (what an odd name) I'll have to check it out. Did you find it to be worth it?

It has useful charts and tables.

[Tanis]

Especially chapter 9: NPC's.

Amazingly useful IME.

[AdAstraGames]

I'm currently playing a Fighter 1/Wizard 6/EK 4 at 11. Human. Transmuter school.

Equipment is a Mithral buckler, a Falchion, and a Mithral breastplate, plus AAT.

Stats:

STR: 15+2+1=18 (7), DEX 14 (5), CON 12 (2), INT 15+1 (7), WIS 10, CHA 9 (-1)

Transmuter bonus usually goes into DEX, making that 16.

Traits: Reactive, Magical Knack
Feats: Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Falchion), Improved Initiative (1st), Arcane Armor Training (3rd), Arcane Strike (5th), Craft Magic Arms & Armor (6th), Dodge (7th), Mobility (8th), Lunge (9th), Weapon Specialization (Falchion) (11th).

When I play her, the spellcasting happens early in the fight - and is usually an attempt to disrupt another caster or to create terrain, then steps in to fight in Melee. The reason for Craft Magical Arms & Armor is because the campaign has very low magic treasure levels, and it (eventually) let her enchant her own +2 Keen Falchion, and enchant her own armor and shield to +3.

Of the feats I took, the only one I really regret is Arcane Strike. I should've taken Craft Wondrous Item instead and built a headband to help with casting and a girdle for more STR.

Her stat block looks like this:

Init +9, AC of 10+7+3+1+6=27, 28 when hasted, and she usually has a Shield of Faith cast on her. Melee (with Haste): +14/+14/+9. (9 BAB +4 STR, +1 WF, +3 (Weapon) +1 (Haste), -3 (PA), -1 (Buckler).) Her primary attack does 2d4+23 per hit (+6 from Str, +2 from Specialization, +3 from weapon, +3 from Arcane Strike, +9 from PA). On those very rare occaisions where she gets two rounds to self buff before fighting, it's Haste and Bull's Strength.

In the party, there's a Dwarven Barbarian and her for melee. She's also the only full progression arcane caster, plus two rogues, a bard and a cleric.

With the caveat that item creation feats are very campaign specific in their utility, my thinking was that feats should go to fightery-stuff, and spells are wizardish stuff.

She has access to 5th level spells (and can cast 6th level spells with her INT). Because her INT is merely 16, she tries to avoid spells that give a saving throw...

[Steven T. Helt]

I think your goal for AC should be 24. That's your level +15, which is right for a combat character. If you are an elf with an 20 Dex, +1 chain shirt, and a +2 deflection bonus, that's 22 already. Or to save the armor check feats, just Dodge and mage armor. Beter for your touch AC anyway. You only need two more: barskskin or some other method.

I love fighting wizards. I absolutely refuse to play one that can't compete with both optimized wizards or optimized fighters. I'd rather be human than elf, but the elf has strong abilities for the class.

I think wiz 5, ftr 1, ek 3 is great for level 9. Maybe swap a feat for a caster level if you'd rather fighter 2. In the first case, +6 BAB, good saves, 4th level spells, and 9 feats. Look at the APG for ideas on how to optimize this combination with favored class options, new spells and feats. I think you can blow your competition away.

And, of course, is your game Pathfinder only? or using 3.5 options? Because you can absolutely have more power than you know what to do with with a little love from Complete Mage or the Paragon Elf class.

[Alex Jordan]

I'm running a pathfinder only game, really, and its sort of high powered for the setting. My friends and, more importantly, my DM prefers to roll for stats and let us roll two sets, so we usualy end up with above-normal stats. my stat block for this character is 18, 17, 16, 16, 14, 13 before stat bumps. A key thing we do allow, though, is the pathfinder srd stuff, such as the offered fan-made feats in Pathfinderdatabase.com. it helps a lot when making characters with flavor without bogging us down in minutia, as the DMs really like to rely heavily on combat.

after stat bumps i ended with, at level 9,

20(18+2) dex, 16(17+1-2) con, 18(16+2) intelligence, 16 wisdom, 14 charisma, and 14(13+1) strength

I haven't chosen my wizard school and off schools and I'm thinking about buying a +4 dex belt, a +4 int headband, a ring of protection +1, a cloak of resistance +1, and an amulet of Natural armor +1. my weapon would be a +1 Icey Elven Curve blade. 5 regular feats, 1 fighter combat feat, 1 fighter combat feat, and 2 feats for wizard to spend, which im confused on because this will be my first caster. Suggestions? comments? As ive said, im trying to build a character that will roleplay the way i want (ive had a penchant for the spell-slinging close combat expert since day 1) but will survive as the only melee with a full wizard and a full sorcerer in the group.

[Alex Jordan]

Steven T. Helt wrote:

Look at the APG for ideas on how to optimize this combination with favored class options, new spells and feats. I think you can blow your competition away.

also, whats the APG?

[Cold Napalm]

Alex Jordan wrote:

Steven T. Helt wrote:

Look at the APG for ideas on how to optimize this combination with favored class options, new spells and feats. I think you can blow your competition away.

also, whats the APG?

Advanced player's guide

[Steven T. Helt]

Okay. Your ability scores a just fantastic, so it's easy to amke a great character with multiple classes. You need a fighting strategy, though: something better than 'fighting spellcaster' or 'spellcasting fighter'. I like to make a warmage with Power Attack, Expertise, and true strike. My advice is take the Minor Spell Expertise feat, and then at caster level 10 take Quicken Spell-like Ability. Now you have true strike as a swift action twice per day. During that round of combat, you Power Attack and Expertise and use the ability. starting the first few levels, you'll take a +14 to hit, +3 Dodge bonus to AC, and +6 to damage. If you pursue this strategy, consider Furious Focus or Second Attempt to make sure you hit and score damage on these rounds. Now two rounds per day, you will dominate. Get a good long range spell. As an elf you have good spell penetration when the big toughies call for some artillery. I also dig Intensify Spell. Imagine a quickened magic missile as a 6th level spell that does 10d4+10 force damage and can't miss. If you dig that plan, that's maybe 6 of your 10 feats by 11th level.

Get dueling gloves to get yourself some help with weapon rolls. If you're going to spend gold on AC, get a +2 deflection bonus instead of 2 +1 bonuses. It helps your touch AC more. You might consider Dodge. Casting spells in combat is tougher, but if you trust your Spellcraft check, I wouldn't waste a feat on Combat Casting.

So, you need a few gimmicks enables by your design choices, and you need maybe a favorite spell or type of spell to overcome your deficiencies or abuse in combat. A lot of guys I know like to abuse one spell but then substitute its energy type when it's not convenient anymore. So pick a great spell and work your way up to Spell Perfection. In fact, if you can quicken true strike as an SLA twice, and then quicken it as your chosen spell a few times per day, you can really stay on top of that AC/to hit/extra damage thing. You have a weapon with a great threat range, so using your Power Attack or Arcane Strike abilities will allow you to double a lot of extra damage.

There's more opportunity with remaining feats, magic items, favored class bonuses, etc. And of course spells that buff you and keep you on your toes. A universalist or evocation specialist is what I recommend. But you have to be able to have some fun making your own dude, so let's not pick anything for you. I guess this is just a brief set of ideas on the kinds of fighter/wizards I like.

[Cold Napalm]

This is a high level trick...but, giantform + shield slam + pit spells are hilariously fun.

[Stubs McKenzie]

Is there a feat in PF that allows you to keep ac from buckler when you attack like Improved Buckler Defense from 3.5? Want to try playing an EK weilding a 2hnder + buckler if it's possible...?

[EWHM]

Get yourself a reach weapon, and enlarge yourself. Maybe get lunge also. Then summon up lots of friends with summon spells. Use them to pack the lines for you while you strike from the backfield with your polearm. You can even play games with cleave/great cleave with this--as your threatened areas will be outrageous. Also, your haste spells will be particularly effective when you've got lots of summonings to benefit from them. Use the various wall and area denial spells to help your minions hold the line and to block enemy spells and missile fire lines of sight and effect. If your GM is like myself, and likes to have enemies in complexes/fortresses/dungeons have a coherent defensive plan according to their listed intelligence, you'll seriously rock the house in running battles because of your inexpensive and highly sustainable DPR (hasted brute monsters in quantity bring the pain, and keep on ticking for quite some time, especially if you brought augment summon to the party and/or are a conjure specialist---the extra conjuration/summon duration makes your minions like the energizer bunny). If you go this route, you don't need to wear armor as much, and you can probably go without arcane armor training, reducing the swift action overload the EK generally has (maybe target having an animated shield with fortification on it at higher levels, a mithril light shield has 0% arcane spell failure). Even rigged out this way, you're still contending with arcane strike, your own quickened or rod-quickened spells, and your spell-critical capstone all competing for your one swift action per turn. Almost might want to not bother with the arcane strike, although that'd be painful at the lowest levels.

[LazarX]

Quantum Steve wrote:

Also, Arcane Armor Training means you can never use your EK capstone. :(

Actually what it means is that you have a choice between using the capstone or getting a guaranteed spell cast.

[Zoddy]

Cold Napalm wrote:

And for the advice of doing the fighter 5/wizard 5 before entering EK...that's a HORRIBLE advice. I'm sorry...but no. If you want something that is mostly martial with a splash of magic and your not doing the archer route, there currently isn't one.

Except Dragon Disciple.

Anyway - instead of going AC route which is imho ridiculous and total waste of gold and feats, cause lets be real - you are gonna get hit anyway even against CR 9 creatures, and mostly you will be facing higher CR creatures. So AAT is meh at best, i would rather go with Arcane Strike than AAT.
Few examples: Bone Devil 5 attacks at +14; Frost Giant +18/+13; Greater Earth Elemental 2x +21;
Again this is my personal opinion.

Also,i looked and its quiet possible that i am blind, but i didn't find a feat that allows you to keep buckler AC.

[Cold Napalm]

Zoddy wrote:

Cold Napalm wrote:

And for the advice of doing the fighter 5/wizard 5 before entering EK...that's a HORRIBLE advice. I'm sorry...but no. If you want something that is mostly martial with a splash of magic and your not doing the archer route, there currently isn't one.

Except Dragon Disciple.

Anyway - instead of going AC route which is imho ridiculous and total waste of gold and feats, cause lets be real - you are gonna get hit anyway even against CR 9 creatures, and mostly you will be facing higher CR creatures. So AAT is meh at best, i would rather go with Arcane Strike than AAT.
Few examples: Bone Devil 5 attacks at +14; Frost Giant +18/+13; Greater Earth Elemental 2x +21;
Again this is my personal opinion.

Also,i looked and its quiet possible that i am blind, but i didn't find a feat that allows you to keep buckler AC.

And you become a dragon disciple as a wizard how?

As for AC build...most primary attacks will connect, both for the PC and monsters...it's the secondary and tertiary attacks that AC is for. Getting hit for 2d8+13 is a big difference from getting hit for 6d8+39.

The buckler feat is from a 3.5 splat book and not a part of PF.

[Zoddy]

You can't, everyone know that, but you said martial with a splash of magic, not martial with a splash of wizard :)

Anyway, its not that i recommend DD over EK, no one in their right mind should, i am just saying its an option, sub-optimal option, but still an option.

[Icaste Fyrbawl]

Cold Napalm wrote:

Icaste Fyrbawl wrote:

Actually I disagree about casters not touching AC. I make a habit of using mithral chain shirt as a caster. I do understand your idea behind the shield though. More items to plus up. But my question is, can you actually make "mithral studded leather" when the majority of studded leather is...well...leather?

As for your EK, decide what you want to be. A spell caster that can fight or a fighter with some spells. If it's the latter, wait off on the EK until you have five levels of fighter (for that wonderful weapon training) or how ever many levels makes you happy. Then plan your spells accordingly (and always have HASTE prepared). It appears you've already done the former with the wiz 5/ftr 1/ek X

According to the gamemastery guide, yes studded leather can be made of mithril. As for the wizard doing it...unless he plans on paying a feat tax, he can not use arcane armor training.

And for the advice of doing the fighter 5/wizard 5 before entering EK...that's a HORRIBLE advice. I'm sorry...but no. If you want something that is mostly martial with a splash of magic and your not doing the archer route, there currently isn't one.

1. You're making the mistake of assuming I'm suggesting Arcane Armor Training (and in the case of a straight wizard, Light Armor Proficiency). Mithral Chain Shirt has no Armor Check Penalty and only a 10% ASF.

2. I agree, there isn't a really good Melee fighter/splash o' magic route. But seeing as this isn't feasable yet, you might as well enjoy some fighter levels instead of the dead levels (yes, you get spellcaster levels, but that's detrimental to our Fighter with a splash o' magic idea) of EK.

[Abraham spalding]

Honestly if you are going wizard then the still spell metamagic feat is the choice method of having armor and casting too, especially with an eldritch knight. There is no reason to give up two feats and your swift action to cast spells when still spell will give you casting in full plate with a tower shield with a single feat and a spell level.

And I have played an wizard 5/ fighter 1/ EK "x" from level 1 taking the still spell with the bonus feat from wizard at level 5. It wasn't easy at a few points but it was by no means impossible or extremely difficult. I went (20 point buy) 16 Str 12 Dex 12 Con 18 Int 10 Wis 7 Cha.

[Icaste Fyrbawl]

Abraham spalding wrote:

Honestly if you are going wizard then the still spell metamagic feat is the choice method of having armor and casting too, especially with an eldritch knight. There is no reason to give up two feats and your swift action to cast spells when still spell will give you casting in full plate with a tower shield with a single feat and a spell level.

And I have played an wizard 5/ fighter 1/ EK "x" from level 1 taking the still spell with the bonus feat from wizard at level 5. It wasn't easy at a few points but it was by no means impossible or extremely difficult. I went (20 point buy) 16 Str 12 Dex 12 Con 18 Int 10 Wis 7 Cha.

So Still Spell IS effective? In your experience? I'd love to hear more on that subject. I've considered it a few times but haven't quite had the luxury of trying it since I'm the primary GM for my group.

[Abraham spalding]

Icaste Fyrbawl wrote:

Abraham spalding wrote:

Honestly if you are going wizard then the still spell metamagic feat is the choice method of having armor and casting too, especially with an eldritch knight. There is no reason to give up two feats and your swift action to cast spells when still spell will give you casting in full plate with a tower shield with a single feat and a spell level.

And I have played an wizard 5/ fighter 1/ EK "x" from level 1 taking the still spell with the bonus feat from wizard at level 5. It wasn't easy at a few points but it was by no means impossible or extremely difficult. I went (20 point buy) 16 Str 12 Dex 12 Con 18 Int 10 Wis 7 Cha.

So Still Spell IS effective? In your experience? I'd love to hear more on that subject. I've considered it a few times but haven't quite had the luxury of trying it since I'm the primary GM for my group.

It honestly is -- so long as you are willing to make the trade.

You take one spell level regression in most cases (some you can avoid) and in return can have an AC that's actually respectable and cast your spells while having something in both hands.

This means you can have that tower shield and a weapon and still cast a spell while still having your swift action. Basically I get a minimum of +13 AC for delaying what spells I have -- with a possibility of up to +23 AC instead, in addition to stuff like heavy fortification (etc).

Also I don't have to "delay" all of my spells -- I can cast things like overland flight, unseen servant, mage armor (yes even with full plate I still cast this to help with incorporeal touch attacks), false life, phantom steed, mount, etc. Also true strike doesn't have a somatic component and several other good spells don't either, so I can still prepare them in the regular slots. Since I'm willing to close in on my targets I'm more willing to use those touch spells with great effects that I normally wouldn't use (touch of idiocy, touch of gracelessness, ghoul's touch, etc) and other short range spells (color spray can still stun multiple targets at higher levels).

For me this usually breaks down like this:

Lower level I use arcane strike taking it with the fighter bonus feat -- at later level if I don't want it I can trade it out that way (since it is a combat feat). I'm not likely to have quicken spell until later anyways so having *something* that helps me based on swift actions is a good thing. However I usually keep arcane strike because:

I don't always want to use the critical quicken spell ability -- sometimes I just want some extra damage on my full attack and to save the spells for later. When I do want to get a spell off while full attacking I'll not use arcane strike instead planning to cast a spell I already have quickened. If I get my spell critical off I'll cast a different spell instead of the one I have prepared as quickened -- if not I'll just cast the spell I have prepared. This way when I want to quicken cast a spell I know I'll be able to do so -- it's just a matter of which one I'll actually cast. This leaves me secure in the idea of not using arcane strike because I know that I'm not "wasting" the swift action.

I will always want to use that swift action -- however now I'm not wasting it and two feats for "just" a minimum bonus of +6 to AC (breastplate/ or some such). Since in this case I'm probably using a mithral buckler anything *not* using still spell I don't count it's AC bonus here (since I would have it anyways -- honestly though I like the buckler better than the tower shield since it allows me the option of AC or better damage through two handing the weapon I'm using).

[Icaste Fyrbawl]

You know, I never had considered that Arcane Strike is a Combat Feat. Well played! I really like your explanation. I can't wait to share this with my player's (because I like to share beneficial ideas with them instead of being a jerk GM haha).

Better question. This is just my personal opinion, but do you find the capstone ability "Spell Critical" almost detrimental in comparison to your Arcane Strike/Quicken Spell tactic? Is the final level of EK even worth taking?

anyone else is more than welcome to answer that question too!

[Abraham spalding]

Icaste Fyrbawl wrote:

Better question. This is just my personal opinion, but do you find the capstone ability "Spell Critical" almost detrimental in comparison to your Arcane Strike/Quicken Spell tactic? Is the final level of EK even worth taking?

Not at all. If I'm planning to quicken a spell and I get spell critical instead this is a wonderful thing -- Instead of quickening that lower level spell that I was planning on casting, I can instead grab any spell and cast it instead. Many times when I'm quickening a spell I would rather quicken a different one but can't due to spell level limits -- in the case of spell critical it removes that limit on the same round I was planning on doing this anyways -- it basically just lets me choose a different spell to quicken than I was going to use.

On the rounds that I'm using arcane strike -- well I'm getting extra damage on a critical -- so what if I didn't get to quicken a spell the arcane strike is going to account for 10~15 more damage than I was planning on doing in that round.

I try not to rely on critical hits and benefits from them, that way they are a nice bonus instead of something I need to happen.

[Cold Napalm]

Still spelling can work if your high level. When your even in your mid levels...not so much. Being restricted to level 2 spells while level 4 spells are getting hurled around kinda makes ya a none combatant. At low levels...yeah...really not fun. Since I tend to play from level 1 to end, I almost never go this route.