Trick spells and spellcraft


General Discussion (Prerelease)

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

This came up last night - how should "trick" spells, such as mislead interact with the spellcraft ability to identify spells that are being cast? As written, when you witness someone casting a spell, you can make a relatively easy spellcraft check to identify what spell it was. This pretty much eliminates the usefullness of spells that are designed to trick people, such as mislead, or other illusions.

After having the mislead spell fail due to this, I've come up with the house rule that illusions such as this have the additional property that the caster can pick a spell of the same level or lower to make them appear to be instead to anyone who uses spellcraft to identify the spell being cast.


JoelF847 wrote:

This came up last night - how should "trick" spells, such as mislead interact with the spellcraft ability to identify spells that are being cast? As written, when you witness someone casting a spell, you can make a relatively easy spellcraft check to identify what spell it was. This pretty much eliminates the usefullness of spells that are designed to trick people, such as mislead, or other illusions.

After having the mislead spell fail due to this, I've come up with the house rule that illusions such as this have the additional property that the caster can pick a spell of the same level or lower to make them appear to be instead to anyone who uses spellcraft to identify the spell being cast.

There's a skill trick in Complete Scoundrel that would be appropriate for either your player, or your foe to learn. (Skill tricks are usable once per encounter or per 5 minutes.) False Theurgy (Complete Scoundrel page 86) requires 8 ranks in Spellcraft and 8 ranks in Bluff or Sleight of Hand (these would be 5 PF ranks each). It requires a swift action, but makes the spell look like another spell (caster's choice) of the same level.

This would seem to be a good compromise between shutting down Spellcraft as a first step in counterspelling and having deception spells just not work in the face of skilled opponents.


Mislead is a bit of an exception -- it specifically doesn't have a verbal component, so I think it's meant to be subtle. At the very least, I'd require a Spot check to notice the somatic component before being able to identify it.


Sadly, there doesn't seem to be anything in the RAW to cover this.

Worst case, play the RAW: the observer gets a spellcraft check of DC21 to identify the spell being cast. If he succeeds, he knows that the enemy spellcaster he can see is really just an illusion, and the knows that real enemy spellcaster is lurking somewhere nearby, or running away, hidden by improved invisibility. He doesn't know where the enemy spellcaster is.

In that case, the Mislead spell just became a high-level version of Improved Invisibility.

Better case, implement a generic house rule from common sense. You can't attempt a Spellcraft check to identify a spell unless you can see and hear the spellcaster who is casting it. Impose a -5 penalty on the Spellcraft checks if you can't see OR can't hear the spellcaster, and if you can't see AND can't hear the spellcaster, well, then there is no way to know whether he is even casting a spell or what spell he is casting if he is even casting at all.

I would suggest a DC 0 Perception check for each sense in question. Why DC 0? Looking at the Perception Skill, sighting a visible creature is a DC 0 check, and hearing a talking person is a DC 0 check. Then work in on ther modifiers, such as lighting, distance, etc.

In the case of the Mislead spell, there is no verbal component, so already the Spellcraft check would be at DC 26 (+5 for not being able to hear the spellcaster).

Now lets say the combat is in a dark dungeon lit by torchlight, and the enemy caster is 40' away. This would require a Perception (sight) check to see him casting Mislead, but the DC is only 4. Assuming you perceive the casting, you would still need a DC 26 Spellcraft check to identify the spell, so at least there's a reasonable chance, depdending on your level, your INT, and your dedication to putting ranks in Spellcraft, that the spellcaster will deceive you with his Mislead spell.

Suppose the enemy caster is clever enough to have prepared a Quickened Obscuring Mist. He casts that right before he casts Mislead.

Now he cannot be seen or heard when he casts Mislead, so there is no Perception check and no way to use Spellcraft to identify the Mislead. His opponents won't even know he cast anything but the Obscuring Mist, and when they see his illusionary form running away out the back, they will have no reason at all to think it's not the real spellcaster.

Another good trick would be to use Quickened Invisibility, then Mislead (not an attack, so it doesn't break regular invisibility). Move left while the illusion (also invisible) moves right. Next round, cast an attack spell that doesn't have visible effects, like Sleep. Your illusion is only invisible, but you're under Improved Invisibility from the Mislead spell, so everyone will see your illusion self reappear as you make him go through the casting motions. Nobody will even think to question whether that's really you casting that Sleep spell.

Yep, this isn't even exactly houseruling (which usually means making up stuff that's not in the rules or changing stuff that is) because all of this is in the rules. I'm using the RAW regarding Perception checks, and I know somewhere in there (maybe DMG 3.5) is a discussion about applying situational modifers to checks such as skill rolls, so that should cover the penalty for not seeing or not hearing the spell being cast. And it's just common sense that in bad lighting or long distances or noisy combats that someone trying to watch you cast a spell should require the appropriate Perception roll to see and/or hear what you're doing.

Hope that sheds some light on the idea.


DM_Blake wrote:
A great way to handle this issue.

Nice job!

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