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Suppose I'm a Bard and I just never liked the fact that See Invisible was 3rd level for me and decide to try and fix the problem once and for all when I get to 10th level. I buy two Arcane scrolls: one of See Invisible and one of Permanency. Can I use UMD on the Permanency Scroll to get permanent See Invisible?
Would this work with Rogues who don't have a Caster Level?
Looks good to me.
You could do it prior to when you are 10th level. The scroll of permanency controls the caster level, not your own caster level. You would have to have a scroll of permanency that was created at 10th or higher level and which had been made with the consumption of at least 5,000 gp worth of diamond dust; a CL10 scroll with that diamond dust value would cost 6,250gp. Your UMD would need to succeed at 20+CL (DC30 for a CL10 scroll).
The rogue works the same; it is the scroll that provides the CL.
If you could find the Permanency scroll you need, there's a good chance you could find a mage to just cast all this for you for cheaper without needing UMD. The downside to Permanency, of course, is that if you get hit by a Dispel, for any reason, say a mage wants to get rid of an annoying Haste spell, or you just happen to be caught in the area of a Greater Dispel, you could lose that spell you spent so much for.
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If you could find the Permanency scroll you need, there's a good chance you could find a mage to just cast all this for you for cheaper without needing UMD.
No, you couldn't. Permanency on see invisibility is caster only. It can't be provided for another character. This is essentially the reason for OP's original post.
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If you could find the Permanency scroll you need, there's a good chance you could find a mage to just cast all this for you for cheaper without needing UMD.No, you couldn't. Permanency on see invisibility is caster only. It can't be provided for another character. This is essentially the reason for OP's original post.
The "See Invisibility" spell can't be provided by another caster, but I don't see any reason why the "Permanency" spell couldn't be. The caster of permanency would have to be of the requisite level for the spell he is permanizing, and the component cost could be paid by the recipient or split between caster and recipient.
Howie's quite right - one can only use Permanency on See Invisibility on oneself.
yar.
But what's the rationale for saying that a second caster couldn't cast the permanency spell for him?
Because that's RAW. Nothing in the Permanency says that you can make spells cast by others permanent. It DOES say that YOU (the caster of Permanency) can make a spell that YOU cast permanent.
PRD[/url] & 318-19 of the PFCore RuleBook]...Casting Time: 2 rounds ... This spell makes the duration of certain other spells permanent. You first cast the desired spell and then follow it with the permanency spell.
Depending on the spell, you must be of a minimum caster level and must expend a specific gp value of diamond dust as a material component.
You can make the following spells permanent in regard to yourself. You cannot cast these spells on other creatures. This application of permanency can be dispelled only by a caster of higher level than you were when you cast the spell.
Bolding of relevant lines is mine. Yup: permanency is a selfish spell that one can only cast in conjunction with other spells that that same person casts. You may choose to do it differently, but this is RAW.
As to the OP's question, yes. Provided you make all the necessary rolls/checks, that is a legal application of the UMD skill.
~P
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Now maybe I am reading the question wrong, but here goes.
Can UMD be used to give you a Caster Level? The answer is yes.
Found under UMD.
Emulate a Class Feature: Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20. This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature. If the class whose feature you are emulating has an alignment requirement, you must meet it, either honestly or by emulating an appropriate alignment with a separate Use Magic Device check (see above).
Use a Scroll: Normally, to cast a spell from a scroll, you must have the scroll's spell on your class spell list. Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. The DC is equal to 20 + the caster level of the spell you are trying to cast from the scroll. In addition, casting a spell from a scroll requires a minimum score (10 + spell level) in the appropriate ability. If you don't have a sufficient score in that ability, you must emulate the ability score with a separate Use Magic Device check.
So, you would need at the very least a:
* An INT of 15, or a UMD of 30 to emulate the 15 INT.
* UMD of 29 to emulate the Caster Level of 9th.
* UMD of 29 to cast the 5th level Permanency.
* UMD of 23 to cast 2nd level See Invisibility.
Hope this clears things up.