Cavaliers and Crocodile Mounts


Pathfinder Society

1/5

Can small-sized cavaliers pick crocodile mounts? The Pathfinder Society Guide (PFSG) doesn't answer that question, and there's conflicting precedents in it.

1) Paladins can choose mounts that "have four legs and must be viewed from a commonsense perspective as being suitable as a mount" (PFSG p.20). Crocodiles do have four legs and can be viewed as being suitable as a mount. The player in question is fully prepared to buy an exotic saddle and treat the crocodile as a non-standard shaped mount for any purposes of buying gear for it.

2) Rangers are restricted to their original mount list. "As a ranger, if you choose an animal companion for your hunter’s bond, you may only select one of the animals listed on page 66 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. There is no expanded companion list for rangers" (PFSG p.20).

3) Both paladins and cavaliers have a suggested list of mounts, but both say something along the lines of DM discretion is allowed for other mounts (Core Rulebook p.63, APG p.33). Rangers have a specific list with no mention of DM discretion (Core Rulebook p.66).

Thank you for your time and answer.


Cavaliers are limited to their list in the APG under their class listing.


What you might want to consider if you want to ride a crocodile is Summoner. Just take an Eidelon with the Mount evolution for 1 point and you are set. Also, later down the road you can give it wins and have a Flying Croc of erm... Doom, yeah Doom.


Melissa Litwin wrote:
3) Both paladins and cavaliers have a suggested list of mounts, but both say something along the lines of DM discretion is allowed for other mounts (Core Rulebook p.63, APG p.33).

You've answered your own question. As long as you're NOT playing a "Pathfinder Society" game, just Ask your DM.

I'm in the process of doing exactly the same thing, but for an Axe Beak (Bonus Bestiary), even with the possible stipulation that I'm not allowed to use it in combat until 4th level... so be it.

1/5

As both cavaliers and paladins have open options for mounts, please explain why the two classes are not treated equally in the matter of mount choices in Pathfinder Society play. Thank you.


I apologize, as I did not realize this thread was in the Pathfinder Society section when I posted my reply, please disregard it. Mr. Frost, who authored the organized rules gave you the correct answer.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Nybris wrote:

What you might want to consider if you want to ride a crocodile is Summoner. Just take an Eidelon with the Mount evolution for 1 point and you are set. Also, later down the road you can give it wins and have a Flying Croc of erm... Doom, yeah Doom.

Unfortunately summoned creatures aren't allowed to look like animals, they have to be fantastical. In home play your GM may allow you to appear to be mundane, but in PFS the class has to be played as-is, and as such Eidelons that look like animals are prohibited.

Sczarni 4/5

Melissa Litwin wrote:
As both cavaliers and paladins have open options for mounts, please explain why the two classes are not treated equally in the matter of mount choices in Pathfinder Society play. Thank you.

How is "at first level a medium cavalier can select a Camel or a horse as his mount" considered open?


MisterSlanky wrote:
Unfortunately summoned creatures aren't allowed to look like animals, they have to be fantastical.

Fantastical is very debatable and easily fixed with as much as a color change, a PURPLE crocodile would be fantastical. (Ex: Paul Bunyon's BLUE ox, Babe.) Also remember Eidolons have a glowing rune marking their true nature.

Besides that, the normal response in civilization to a "crocodile" is one of two things... KILL IT or RUN AWAY (get someone else to 'REMOVE' it). Crocodiles do not make good spies, lol.

5/5

Daniel Moyer wrote:
Crocodiles do not make good spies, lol.

Just for that I'm going to make an awakened NPC crocodile with ranks in Stealth, Bluff, Disguise, and Diplomacy. :P

1/5

Cpt_kirstov wrote:
Melissa Litwin wrote:
As both cavaliers and paladins have open options for mounts, please explain why the two classes are not treated equally in the matter of mount choices in Pathfinder Society play. Thank you.
How is "at first level a medium cavalier can select a Camel or a horse as his mount" considered open?

The APG states "A Medium cavalier can select a camel or a horse. A Small cavalier can select a pony or wolf, but can also select a boar or a dog if he is at least 4th level. The GM might approve other animals as suitable mounts" (p. 33). That last sentence does in fact state that it is open choice.

The Organized Play Guide says that paladins have options, rangers don't, and doesn't say anything about cavaliers. Because of the wording of the cavalier mount ability and the paladin mount ability, I thought they would be treated as paladins, not rangers, for the purpose of mounts.


Not in PFS, the PFS head GM has rules ya can have what is listed, noting more.

1/5

seekerofshadowlight wrote:
Not in PFS, the PFS head GM has rules ya can have what is listed, noting more.

Organized Play Guide, p. 20. "As a paladin, your divine bond mount must be at least one size category larger than you starting at 1st level. If you’re a Medium PC, your mount must be Large. If you’re a Small PC, your mount must be at least Medium. Your mount must have four legs and must be viewed from a commonsense perspective as being suitable as a mount."

Paladins have mount options in organized play. That is, I presume, because the base book says they have options. Cavaliers in the APG have mount options. Therefore, logically, they should have options in organized play as well.


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Just to make sure we're all on the same page: this is the Pathfinder Society Organized Play forum and we're discussing the issue of cavaliers and their mounts inside the OP frame.

Paladins, if they choose get a mount as their divine bond, don't get a mount until 5th level where there are a wider variety of open options for them since their animal companion equivalent level is equal to that of a druid.

Cavaliers get their mount at first level and their animal companion level is equal to that of a druid as well. Horses and camels are the only mount options because they're the only companions that start out Large. Small-sized cavaliers could, potentially, have more options (if I allowed them) but then everyone's cavalier would be a halfling or gnome so they could ride a medium-sized companion. It's not a fair distribution of that ability and therefore cavaliers get horse or camel and that's it.

I need to add the cavalier clarification to the next document update.

1/5

Joshua J. Frost wrote:

Just to make sure we're all on the same page: this is the Pathfinder Society Organized Play forum and we're discussing the issue of cavaliers and their mounts inside the OP frame.

Paladins, if they choose get a mount as their divine bond, don't get a mount until 5th level where there are a wider variety of open options for them since their animal companion equivalent level is equal to that of a druid.

Cavaliers get their mount at first level and their animal companion level is equal to that of a druid as well. Horses and camels are the only mount options because they're the only companions that start out Large. Small-sized cavaliers could, potentially, have more options (if I allowed them) but then everyone's cavalier would be a halfling or gnome so they could ride a medium-sized companion. It's not a fair distribution of that ability and therefore cavaliers get horse or camel and that's it.

I need to add the cavalier clarification to the next document update.

Thank you for the clarification. I hadn't considered that aspect, and it does make sense.

Sovereign Court 1/5

Joshua J. Frost wrote:

...but then everyone's cavalier would be a halfling or gnome so they could ride a medium-sized companion...

I have little exposure to people outside of my immediate group, but have you seen many mounted characters that aren't halflings or gnomes? Are they higher level? It took just one session with my large mounted cavalier to realize I was going to be a sad panda in many mods because there just isn't enough room for a large mount, and even less if you don't use a lance or other reach weapon.

Lantern Lodge

RtrnofdMax wrote:


I have little exposure to people outside of my immediate group, but have you seen many mounted characters that aren't halflings or gnomes? Are they higher level? It took just one session with my large mounted cavalier to realize I was going to be a sad panda in many mods because there just isn't enough room for a large mount, and even less if you don't use a lance or other reach weapon.

Yeah it's not something they can really plan on in the PFS to design adventures around large mounts. You must play homebrew for that. In my 23 scenarios I have only seen a large mount used once. I have never played the cavalier but two of my friends have. One was a human the other hallfing. The human always has to leave his mount behind and is reduced to only teamwork feat buffs. Mildly effective but he could be a different class with much more to contribute to the group. Now the halfling rides all over the place and is extremely effective. The cavalier is a nice class but with this new ruling is unsuitable for PFS play.

1/5

kaisc006 wrote:
RtrnofdMax wrote:


I have little exposure to people outside of my immediate group, but have you seen many mounted characters that aren't halflings or gnomes? Are they higher level? It took just one session with my large mounted cavalier to realize I was going to be a sad panda in many mods because there just isn't enough room for a large mount, and even less if you don't use a lance or other reach weapon.
Yeah it's not something they can really plan on in the PFS to design adventures around large mounts. You must play homebrew for that. In my 23 scenarios I have only seen a large mount used once. I have never played the cavalier but two of my friends have. One was a human the other hallfing. The human always has to leave his mount behind and is reduced to only teamwork feat buffs. Mildly effective but he could be a different class with much more to contribute to the group. Now the halfling rides all over the place and is extremely effective. The cavalier is a nice class but with this new ruling is unsuitable for PFS play.

Well, not really playable for medium creatures anyways. Although cavaliers are pretty good fighter-types even as non-mounted combatants, depending on their order. So if you want to be a mounted combatant, you go with being small, and if you want to have a mount and consider it a ranger-type animal companion you can be medium.

I assume when Mr. Frost says only horses or camels, he really means the original list. That was his original post, and it wouldn't make any sense to restrict small characters to large mounts.

Sovereign Court 1/5

I was playing around with some ideas, and I think spells could help the medium cavalier. Alter self would work for making him a small humanoid, and reduce animal would make his mount medium. How to do this though?

Alter self is on the bard list and shoehorns nicely with the Battle Herald prestige class. Then the question becomes how to get reduce animal? Looks like a wand or ranks in UMD would be required. The hour long buff for Reduce Animal makes it easy to handle, but the minutes long buff if Alter Self would likely require a wand of that too, to maintain.

Lantern Lodge

Melissa Litwin wrote:


I assume when Mr. Frost says only horses or camels, he really means the original list. That was his original post, and it wouldn't make any sense to restrict small characters to large mounts.

Nope only to horses and camels because he wants it only to be large sized mounts. There's not much PFS can do to help out cavaliers they aren't designed for the dungeon crawling nature of the PFS.

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