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Iran Blasts US for Plans to Execute Virginia Woman
If I remember the full details of the Iranian woman, part of the reason for her sentence is arranging for the murder of her husband (by her lover). I'm not saying that the Iranian woman actually committed the crime, I'm not saying that either deserve to die. What I am saying, however, is that if we are going to condemn Iran for enforcing capital punishment maybe we should put our money where our mouth is.
Virginia is about to execute a borderline mentally retarded woman even after evidence has surfaced showing she's probably not the mastermind she was made out to be and simply someone who was duped. If we want to save that Iranian woman from being stoned to death, we need to put off slaking our bloodlust and halt the execution of this woman in Virginia. Will Iran still execute their prisoner? Probably. But at least we won't be hypocrites.
OK X as somebody thats lives in VA this is makeing some serious headlines around here.
From what is being reporrted locally she is being given a lethal injection which is far more humane than stoneing after being given lashes(horse whipped)
From what I understand about the iranian woman she is accused of adultery with NO supporting evidence. Her own adult son has tried to explain the circumstances of her being on the street with no male relative to watch over her and the courts won't hear it.
The Virgina woman hired two men to kill her husband and step-son then took her 16 yr ols daughter to have sex with one of the killers.
All of these facts are what I read from Wavy news 10 and hampton roads online.
I can barely see a corelation between the two cases other than their both women.
One has no evidence to support her charge and the other has insurmountable evidence she did it.
I will however say that your post is the very first I have heard about the va killers mental state. I was unaware she was limited in her faculties, I don't care one way or the other because if she killed before she could kill again but it is the first I have heard of it.
Sure. There's a grand scale of difference in the severity of the 'crime' involved. And yes, Iran's means for punishment is a bit draconian. I'm not going to get on a soapbox about the relativity of morality and punishment with regard to cultural and societal differences, but he's got a point to a degree. One can't point out the sliver in one's eye when they're blinded across the face by a wayward two-by-four. It's not about relative degrees of what is a humane sentence versus what isn't. You either do it, or you don't. Before you speak on someone else's practices, you better take a look at your own and rein it in. All of it.
Kids say the darndest things.
EDIT: That was not targeted at you houstonderek, but at Ahmadinejad.
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Kids say the darndest things.
EDIT: That was not targeted at you houstonderek, but at Ahmadinejad.
I'll grant that he occasionally says something profound, but in the same way a broken analog watch is correct twice a day.
I just wish he'd shut up until we start executing homosexuals in soccer stadiums.
I think execution is wrong no matter how you, err... execute it. Dead is dead. And yes I wont deny that some people do horrible, evil, disgusting things. But every once in a while you kill the wrong guy. What then? Should the judges or juries be sentenced to death then, or the lawyers? (And please let's not get into a discussion on lawyers eh? ;) ) But of course, that's just me and my Danish view of things. I know that some people feel very strongly about the death sentence and how it's a good thing, so you can really get back at them hoodlems and goons. But what good does it do? Revenge? Bring back those that have died by the miscreant hands? Deter other evil-doers and make them turn their back on their life of crime? Well... that's my rant. Take care y'all!
The death sentence is never a good thing. At times though it maybe the least evil option. It is always hard to justify.
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I think execution is wrong no matter how you, err... execute it. Dead is dead. And yes I wont deny that some people do horrible, evil, disgusting things. But every once in a while you kill the wrong guy. What then? Should the judges or juries be sentenced to death then, or the lawyers? (And please let's not get into a discussion on lawyers eh? ;) ) But of course, that's just me and my Danish view of things. I know that some people feel very strongly about the death sentence and how it's a good thing, so you can really get back at them hoodlems and goons. But what good does it do? Revenge? Bring back those that have died by the miscreant hands? Deter other evil-doers and make them turn their back on their life of crime? Well... that's my rant. Take care y'all!
Having done time, I will say I think life without the possibility of parole is a much more punitive punishment. Especially if first degree murderers get the ADX treatment. Ask H Rap Brown if he's having a good time at ADX Florence. I'm anti-death penalty not for moral reasons, but for cost effectiveness and punitive reasons. Death is too easy an out for some of the dirtbags that have committed some seriously heinous crimes.
I think execution is wrong no matter how you, err... execute it. Dead is dead. And yes I wont deny that some people do horrible, evil, disgusting things. But every once in a while you kill the wrong guy. What then? Should the judges or juries be sentenced to death then, or the lawyers? (And please let's not get into a discussion on lawyers eh? ;) ) But of course, that's just me and my Danish view of things. I know that some people feel very strongly about the death sentence and how it's a good thing, so you can really get back at them hoodlems and goons. But what good does it do? Revenge? Bring back those that have died by the miscreant hands? Deter other evil-doers and make them turn their back on their life of crime? Well... that's my rant. Take care y'all!Having done time, I will say I think life without the possibility of parole is a much more punitive punishment. Especially if first degree murderers get the ADX treatment. Ask H Rap Brown if he's having a good time at ADX Florence. I'm anti-death penalty not for moral reasons, but for cost effectiveness and punitive reasons. Death is too easy an out for some of the dirtbags that have committed some seriously heinous crimes.
lets bring back the Oubliette.
I just wish he'd shut up until we start executing homosexuals in soccer stadiums.
...or at least the ones in the military.
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I just wish he'd shut up until we start executing homosexuals in soccer stadiums....or at least the ones in the military.
I'm more than a little disappointed in Obama right now. He could correct that, as Commander in Chief, with an executive order.
But then, he needs to appease the less enlightened elements of his own base there.
I just wish he'd shut up until we start executing homosexuals in soccer stadiums....or at least the ones in the military.
Surprised he hasn't used David's method with Uriah the Hittite...
I'm more than a little disappointed in Obama right now.
I am also disappointed, but not surprised.
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I'm more than a little disappointed in Obama right now.I am also disappointed, but not surprised.
Of course, when he came out against gay marriage during the campaign I just kind of shook my head. Not every power group under the Democrat umbrella is as socially enlightened as the DNC would have us think. The AFL/CIO and UAW members tend to be pretty socially conservative for one. As do African Americans (the Prop 8 vote illustrated that pretty clearly). The black community isn't lacking in the Baptist department, after all.
I'm more than a little disappointed in Obama right now.I am also disappointed, but not surprised.
I just wonder what happened to his f$!#ing spine, Hillary has bigger balls than he does.
I think execution is wrong no matter how you, err... execute it. Dead is dead. And yes I wont deny that some people do horrible, evil, disgusting things. But every once in a while you kill the wrong guy. What then? Should the judges or juries be sentenced to death then, or the lawyers? (And please let's not get into a discussion on lawyers eh? ;) ) But of course, that's just me and my Danish view of things. I know that some people feel very strongly about the death sentence and how it's a good thing, so you can really get back at them hoodlems and goons. But what good does it do? Revenge? Bring back those that have died by the miscreant hands? Deter other evil-doers and make them turn their back on their life of crime? Well... that's my rant. Take care y'all!Having done time, I will say I think life without the possibility of parole is a much more punitive punishment. Especially if first degree murderers get the ADX treatment. Ask H Rap Brown if he's having a good time at ADX Florence. I'm anti-death penalty not for moral reasons, but for cost effectiveness and punitive reasons. Death is too easy an out for some of the dirtbags that have committed some seriously heinous crimes.
I can see why life in prison without the chance of parole might be a more severe punishment in a certain way. It's preferable to the death-sentence in my eyes since you can always free the guy if new evidence turns up in a case that was hitherto thought of as bulletproof. It's not unheard of. And I am in no way denying that there are some really nasty people out there that "deserves" to die. But who am I to judge who deserves to die? Sometimes the good guys die and the wicket ones lives. Is it fair? Is it just? It just is. If people get so depraved or insane or miserable or what-ever makes them take another life, no matter what you do to that person will make up for the loss of a human life. There is only the sence of justice been done. And I'm not trying to neglect the fact that it is a very important thing. It is healthy for the community to feel that the wrong-doers got what they deserved.
What I wish for is world peace... *Blerk* That having been said, what I really wish for is for people in charge to figure out a way to take steps toward preventing crime in the first place. Heck, I know it's impossible. Lots of crime is being commited by desperate poor people for all sorts of reasons and rich people cheat and swindle with huge amounts of money... So what are you to do?
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Hey...somebody broke my thread title >.> I'll get you Teter!!!!
But seriously...the Humaneness of the method of death is not what is at issue here. People tend to forget that our courts can be just as Kangaroo-ey as Iran's sometimes. Chances are the Iranian woman is innocent and the American woman is guilty. That being said, why the disparate punishment in the VA case? The actual triggermen (one of whom, at least, had an IQ above average, not borderline retarded) got life in prison. It appears that one of the men serving life was the one behind the whole thing (which is presumably why the woman got the death penalty)...evidence has been shown to this effect, but they can't retroactively sentence him to death, and somebody's gotta die, so she's going to.
We cannot condemn Iran for sentencing that woman to die under questionable circumstances when it appears that we are about to do the same.
Hey...somebody broke my thread title >.> I'll get you Teter!!!!
Likely Ross. Teter's out getting his superfreak on for a couple of weeks. :p
Hey it got fixed back! Thanks ghost mod!Hey...somebody broke my thread title >.> I'll get you Teter!!!!Likely Ross. Teter's out getting his superfreak on for a couple of weeks. :p
Whoah. Gift horse if I ever saw one!
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Why are you toying with me?!?!?!Whoah. Gift horse if I ever saw one!Hey it got fixed back! Thanks ghost mod!Hey...somebody broke my thread title >.> I'll get you Teter!!!!Likely Ross. Teter's out getting his superfreak on for a couple of weeks. :p
You are allowed to slam on all the Christians you want, but you should know better than to joke about this guy's name.
C'mon, this is Paizo.
Why are you toying with me?!?!?!Whoah. Gift horse if I ever saw one!Hey it got fixed back! Thanks ghost mod!Hey...somebody broke my thread title >.> I'll get you Teter!!!!Likely Ross. Teter's out getting his superfreak on for a couple of weeks. :p
I'm not specifically toying with you. I was surprised it was switched back as you are.
Hey...somebody broke my thread title >.> I'll get you Teter!!!!
But seriously...the Humaneness of the method of death is not what is at issue here. People tend to forget that our courts can be just as Kangaroo-ey as Iran's sometimes. Chances are the Iranian woman is innocent and the American woman is guilty. That being said, why the disparate punishment in the VA case? The actual triggermen (one of whom, at least, had an IQ above average, not borderline retarded) got life in prison. It appears that one of the men serving life was the one behind the whole thing (which is presumably why the woman got the death penalty)...evidence has been shown to this effect, but they can't retroactively sentence him to death, and somebody's gotta die, so she's going to.
Personally I think the 3 of them should get the needle, but I agree it's stupid for the trigger men to get to live while the borderline mentally disabled person gets the needle.
...the judge wasn't an import from Texas was he?
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Hey...somebody broke my thread title >.> I'll get you Teter!!!!
But seriously...the Humaneness of the method of death is not what is at issue here. People tend to forget that our courts can be just as Kangaroo-ey as Iran's sometimes. Chances are the Iranian woman is innocent and the American woman is guilty. That being said, why the disparate punishment in the VA case? The actual triggermen (one of whom, at least, had an IQ above average, not borderline retarded) got life in prison. It appears that one of the men serving life was the one behind the whole thing (which is presumably why the woman got the death penalty)...evidence has been shown to this effect, but they can't retroactively sentence him to death, and somebody's gotta die, so she's going to.
We cannot condemn Iran for sentencing that woman to die under questionable circumstances when it appears that we are about to do the same.
Different trials with different lawyers, judges and jurors will end with different results.
You are allowed to slam on all the Christians you want...
Tiresome and forced. If you really wanted to have this conversation, this is hardly the place. But you know that...
I'm more than a little disappointed in Obama right now. He could correct that, as Commander in Chief, with an executive order.
But then, he needs to appease the less enlightened elements of his own base there.
I hate to say it, but I agree.
I hate to say it, but I agree.I'm more than a little disappointed in Obama right now. He could correct that, as Commander in Chief, with an executive order.
But then, he needs to appease the less enlightened elements of his own base there.
Hey c'mon guys look at the bright side. Come november he's gonna be a serious lame duck and by 2012 he will be outta there.
HD just my two cents here I can understand being frustrated with "SOME" types of chritians, like the phelpses and focus on the family, but I have known and love quite a few really decent ones that are so far removed from the bad types as to almost be uncomparable.
I'm a gay, pagan and they are straight,christian and I have to hear how they are still praying for me but I turn it around and say I'm sure the gods appreciate your call. we laugh and move on.
I have seen you post on other boards and know you don't mean to use such a overly large brush to paint "ALL" christians as such, it just sounds bad the way you phrased it before.
If it's any help, I know of at least one arcbishop emeritus whose reaction to someone being gay and/or pagan would be along the lines of "whatever floats your boat as long as you're a decent human being." This is of course the same guy who had the balls to admit that yes, he does find the idea of immaculate conception a bit far-fetched.
I hate to say it, but I agree.I'm more than a little disappointed in Obama right now. He could correct that, as Commander in Chief, with an executive order.
But then, he needs to appease the less enlightened elements of his own base there.
Hey c'mon guys look at the bright side. Come november he's gonna be a serious lame duck and by 2012 he will be outta there.
HD just my two cents here I can understand being frustrated with "SOME" types of chritians, like the phelpses and focus on the family, but I have known and love quite a few really decent ones that are so far removed from the bad types as to almost be uncomparable.
I'm a gay, pagan and they are straight,christian and I have to hear how they are still praying for me but I turn it around and say I'm sure the gods appreciate your call. we laugh and move on.
I have seen you post on other boards and know you don't mean to use such a overly large brush to paint "ALL" christians as such, it just sounds bad the way you phrased it before.
I see a lot of people dogging out Obama, but give me one really good alternative and I would buy in. Hmmm let's see, he helped keep the economy solvent although struggling, passed some type of healthcare reform (may not be very good, but better than nothing), and passed some financial reform (may not be very good, but better than nothing). If you really believe that McCain/Palin would have done better or more?
All things considered with the economy I think he has done okay for us. You say he is out in 2012, who is going to be the lead candidate then? Most people have no idea how close to the brink we were on worldwide financial collapse 18 months ago...not that we are 100% completely out of the woods, but hey the Rich grew their income by 8% in 2009-10 so that is all that matters.
I just wish he'd shut up until we start executing homosexuals in soccer stadiums....or at least the ones in the military.I'm more than a little disappointed in Obama right now. He could correct that, as Commander in Chief, with an executive order.
But then, he needs to appease the less enlightened elements of his own base there.
We cannot condemn Iran for sentencing that woman to die under questionable circumstances when it appears that we are about to do the same.
I understand your point, but I respectfully disagree. Our system is flawed, but it is a vast improvement over theirs. You can say we are all sinners and therefore, we are all exactly alike. No, no we are not. I believe there are degrees.
We cannot condemn Iran for sentencing that woman to die under questionable circumstances when it appears that we are about to do the same.I understand your point, but I respectfully disagree. Our system is flawed, but it is a vast improvement over theirs. You can say we are all sinners and therefore, we are all exactly alike. No, no we are not. I believe there are degrees.
Doesn't this eventually boil down to a some are more equal than others argument?
We cannot condemn Iran for sentencing that woman to die under questionable circumstances when it appears that we are about to do the same.I understand your point, but I respectfully disagree. Our system is flawed, but it is a vast improvement over theirs. You can say we are all sinners and therefore, we are all exactly alike. No, no we are not. I believe there are degrees.
+1, I would have to agree that we probably put more time into the defense of someone to prove their innocence, probably more than any other country in the world. We have more lawyers than many countries have people...
I suppose it does and honestly, I do not have an answer for that. If all life is sacred, what gives me the right to kill fire ants?
We hates dem down 'ere in Tejas, we do.
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We cannot condemn Iran for sentencing that woman to die under questionable circumstances when it appears that we are about to do the same.I understand your point, but I respectfully disagree. Our system is flawed, but it is a vast improvement over theirs. You can say we are all sinners and therefore, we are all exactly alike. No, no we are not. I believe there are degrees.
No doubt, but aren't we supposed to be the bigger person (nation) here? This just seems like a decent example of a "do as I say, not as I do" moment. Why not say "you know what, you're right" and put the ball back in his court? Is it really going to kill us (no pun intended) to not execute this woman?
Who is going to give that order? Obama? Can you hear the cries of 'states rights'? The governor of Virginia? He has to run for re-election does he not? How is he going to look kowtowing to Ahmadinejad?
Have you ever killed an animal or insect? Do you eat meat? What gives you that right? Aren't you being just a little bit hypocritical yourself?
(Shrug). As I've said before, I don't find the death penalty to be automatically "immoral." However,
I find totalitarian regimes immoral.
I find theocracy to be immoral when put into practice.
I find large-scale subjugation of women as second-class citizens immoral.
I find holocaust denial immoral.
I could go on, but...
So I don't condemn Iran for practicing capital punishment, but that's a separate issue from all the things I do condemn them for.
Have you ever killed an animal or insect? Do you eat meat? What gives you that right? Aren't you being just a little bit hypocritical yourself?
Not if he takes the "oh, but people are special" line.
Not if he takes the "oh, but people are special" line.
…but then we are at Freehold DM's point. We have made humans more equal than others. There is certainly historical and religious precedent for this, but I would dismiss it.
"How do you know she is a witch? Because she looks like one, burn her, burn her!"
Now that is justice!
…but then we are at Freehold DM's point. We have made humans more equal than others. There is certainly historical and religious precedent for this, but I would dismiss it.
I would, too, but I'm in a vanishingly small minority on that. Most people rate humans as being inherently "better" than animals, and children and babies as inherently "better" than adults, and wealthy adults who successfully scam the system to be inherently "better" than criminals, and people who share their beliefs to be "better" than people who reject their religion in favor of another one (or none at all), and people on the same side of the political spectrum to be inherently "better" than their political opponents.
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Who is going to give that order? Obama? Can you hear the cries of 'states rights'? The governor of Virginia? He has to run for re-election does he not? How is he going to look kowtowing to Ahmadinejad?
Taking the high road sucks about 100% of the time.
Have you ever killed an animal or insect? Do you eat meat? What gives you that right? Aren't you being just a little bit hypocritical yourself?
Sorry, but I place more value on the lives of sentient beings than I do mindless vermin and beasts.
Sorry, but I place more value on the lives of sentient beings than I do mindless vermin and beasts.
And you are empowered to assign the relative sentience ratings as you see fit? Wow. Sucks for your political opponents. Or dolphins, if you happen to decide, based on appearances, that they're "just fish."