hey all,
I just completed my first pathfinder society mod last night and I was going with a barbarian.
I was looking through the rage powers and was interested in getting raging leaper and possibly raging climber.
I wanted to know if anyone has played a barb before with those powers and how they worked out for you.
In the scenerio we played the bad guys were on higher ground. My barb was able to charge and jump to hit them...mainly because I rolled a 29 jump check. But that got me thinking that one of the main perks of a barbarian is mobility.
With a charge speed of 80 (40 feet base speed x 2) and insane jump bonus, I think my barb could be able to charge in most situtions and close the distance with the enemy.
Is this a viable path to take? Thank you in advance.
First, it sounds like you`re miscalculating how Speed affects Jump checks - You use the ´Base Land Speed´ (or I suppose Swim Speed if a Swimmer is jumping out of the water) and don`t double it (to determine bonus to Acrobatics/Jump) if you`re Charging (or 3x/4x it if Running). I may be misinterpreting your statement, though...?
The main thing is that Raging Climber/ Leaper are EASILY replicable via very low level spells / cheap magic items... which are BETTER than even a 20th level Barbarian with these powers... i.e. Spider Climb (or Slippers of) beats the pants off Raging Climber even if it was somehow giving you a +1000 bonus to Climb Checks. Likewise, Jump, Expeditious Retreat, plus Levitate and Fly, and Items replicating such spells are just going to be MUCH more effective than Raging Leaper. You certainly won`t be able to get all those items at very low levels, but also realize that the bonus granted by these Powers is also low at very low levels.
A general speed boost like from Boots of Speed will help your battlefield mobility when you DON`T have to Jump but there is simply alot of ground to cover AND also boosts your Jump checks. Levitate / Fly items are eventually going to be necessary if you don`t want to be dependant on the party Caster using a round`s action to cast Fly on you in-combat (when dealing with Flying enemies), and obviously make Jumping and Climbing almost superfluous.
These Powers, along with Raging Swimmer, just seem like NPC fodder: they´re just not remotely good enough so that 4 levels later you will still be glad you took the power. In the cases of the Climbing and Swimming Powers, they`re ESPECIALLY underwhelming because you don`t even gain a Climb/Swim speed, meaning you can`t even take 5´ steps (for Full Attacks).
At your current level, I`d just recommend keeping Acrobatics maxed out, which combined with your Base Speed will give you good mobility. You can put ranks in Climb for now, to deal with surprise situations where you have to grab on for life and when the party Casters don`t have the proper spells like Spider Climb, etc. But it`s not really a skill you need to max out forever...
Think of other ways to deal with similar situations.
First, what would the enemy do if you maintained your position?
If they`re not archers, they also probably would have to come to you (if they want to kill you), so why not let them? You can ready a Standard Action like Cleave (if you have that Feat) so that once they are in range you attack them, and get more than the 1 attack they received from Charging you.
If you have a Reach Weapon, all non-Reach opponents moving to attack you (besides 5´steps) will provoke an AoO, which is basically just about as good as the single attack you would get from a Charge. With Combat Reflexes and a reasonable DEX (say, 14) you can get *3* of those AoO`s per round... so what I`m saying is that attacking ON YOUR TURN isn`t always the most important thing, since simply being in the right place (which you can do with a Full Round Move) can be just as effective. (such AoO`s would `stack` on top of a Readied Attack if they Charge you... and these all happen before they can attack you, so you can drop them before they get 1 hit on you)
Also, if you`re interested in `Mobility`, you`re likely interested in the OTHER usage of Acrobatics, Tumbling, which lets you AVOID provoking those AoO`s from Movement. The only thing is that it only works in Light Armor (or Mithril Medium Armor), so you may want to take that into account. I believe that multi-classing 4 levels of Fighter lets you wear Medium / Mithril Heavy Armor and still Tumble, but you obviously won`t be progressing your Rage Abilities while you take those Fighter levels.
Quandary wrote: First, it sounds like you`re miscalculating how Speed affects Jump checks - You use the ´Base Land Speed´ (or I suppose Swim Speed if a Swimmer is jumping out of the water) and don`t double it (to determine bonus to Acrobatics/Jump) if you`re Charging (or 3x/4x it if Running). I may be misinterpreting your statement, though...?
The main thing is that Raging Climber/ Leaper are EASILY replicable via very low level spells / cheap magic items... which are BETTER than even a 20th level Barbarian with these powers... i.e. Spider Climb (or Slippers of) beats the pants off Raging Climber even if it was somehow giving you a +1000 bonus to Climb Checks. Likewise, Jump, Expeditious Retreat, plus Levitate and Fly, and Items replicating such spells are just going to be MUCH more effective than Raging Leaper. You certainly won`t be able to get all those items at very low levels, but also realize that the bonus granted by these Powers is also low at very low levels.
A general speed boost like from Boots of Speed will help your battlefield mobility when you DON`T have to Jump but there is simply alot of ground to cover AND also boosts your Jump checks. Levitate / Fly items are eventually going to be necessary if you don`t want to be dependant on the party Caster using a round`s action to cast Fly on you in-combat (when dealing with Flying enemies), and obviously make Jumping and Climbing almost superfluous.
These Powers, along with Raging Swimmer, just seem like NPC fodder: they´re just not remotely good enough so that 4 levels later you will still be glad you took the power. In the cases of the Climbing and Swimming Powers, they`re ESPECIALLY underwhelming because you don`t even gain a Climb/Swim speed, meaning you can`t even take 5´ steps (for Full Attacks).
At your current level, I`d just recommend keeping Acrobatics maxed out, which combined with your Base Speed will give you good mobility. You can put ranks in Climb for now, to deal with surprise situations where you have to grab on for life and when the...
Hey Quandry that was really helpful.
I think I will take the following feats:
Power attack (1st),improved sunder (3rd), skill focus intimidate (5th), vital strike (7th)
powers:
intimidating glare(2nd), knockback (4th)strength surge (6th), terrifying howl (8th)
I think that gives a nice amount of versatility.
Have you tried looking around these boards for optimisation guides? I know there aren't any for barbarians per se, but you might get some feedback on your feat selection and so forth from looking at guides to fighters, rangers or paladins.
For example, vital strike is routinely panned as a terrible feat to take. The damage bonus just isn't worth the costs. I would recommend against it.
Instead, if you want to focus on Intimidation, have you thought about Intimidating Prowess? Str is going to be one of your major attributes, so it certainly won't hurt you, plus it means that in a rage, you get an extra +2 bonus from your increased strength. (It also means if you're on a points buy system, you can dump Cha for Str, and still be good at Intimidation).
If you're using the APG, Smash might be a good choice to go with Improved Sunder. It lets you ignore the first 5 (I think) hardness in your sunder attacks, so it's much, much easier to smash armour and metal weapons.
To go back to what you originally said though, you are right than mobility is one of the barbarian's key assets, espeically at low levels before you've got truckloads of magic items. The key is taking advantage of that while still being effective in combat.
Pay close attention to Quandary's advice on Acrobatics and attacks of opportunity, too.
Schadenfreude wrote: Have you tried looking around these boards for optimisation guides? I know there aren't any for barbarians per se, but you might get some feedback on your feat selection and so forth from looking at guides to fighters, rangers or paladins.
For example, vital strike is routinely panned as a terrible feat to take. The damage bonus just isn't worth the costs. I would recommend against it.
Instead, if you want to focus on Intimidation, have you thought about Intimidating Prowess? Str is going to be one of your major attributes, so it certainly won't hurt you, plus it means that in a rage, you get an extra +2 bonus from your increased strength. (It also means if you're on a points buy system, you can dump Cha for Str, and still be good at Intimidation).
If you're using the APG, Smash might be a good choice to go with Improved Sunder. It lets you ignore the first 5 (I think) hardness in your sunder attacks, so it's much, much easier to smash armour and metal weapons.
To go back to what you originally said though, you are right than mobility is one of the barbarian's key assets, espeically at low levels before you've got truckloads of magic items. The key is taking advantage of that while still being effective in combat.
Pay close attention to Quandary's advice on Acrobatics and attacks of opportunity, too.
I was thinking vital strike because I can use that on a move and attack, or on a charge. In both those cases I wouldn't be able to full attack. It would be an additional die (or dice) of damage.
I was thinking vital strike because I can use that on a move and attack, or on a charge. In both those cases I wouldn't be able to full attack. It would be an additional die (or dice) of damage.
Can use Vitial Strike on move But NOT ON A CHARGE or SPRING ATTACK.
Cuase both are full round actions.
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