In the past, the Official 3.5 FAQ said that the extra damage from 'burst' weapons was activated every time a critical hit was scored and confirmed, even if the creature was immune to critical hits (it was reasonable - the creature is immune to the extra damage from the critical hit, not to the energy damage 'triggered' by the critical hit itself)
More recently, however, the last version of the Official 3.5 FAQ changed this, saying that the 'trigger' of the burst is the DAMAGE that the creature takes, not the d20 roll (and so, a creature immune to critical hits does not take the extra damage UNLESS the bonus specifically says so - like some bonuses in the Magic Item Compendium splatbook).
So, my question is, how burst weapons work now in Pathfinder? Do they actually have to damage a creature with extra-damage from critical hits in order to activate their burst ability (and so, work only with creatures vulnerable to critical hits)? Or is sufficient to score a critical and then confirm it in order to activate the extra Energy damage they would deal (and so, affect even creatures immune to critical hits, since you can score and confirm a critical even to such creatures - only thing, you normally cannot add the additional critical damage to them) ?
Director of Games
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Since most creatures are no longer immune to crits, this is less of an issue. I think we are going to say that the burst triggers on a critical hit, period, regardless of the creature struck and just stick with that, no exceptions.
Sometimes simpler is best.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
I think we are going to say that the burst triggers on a critical hit, period, regardless of the creature struck and just stick with that, no exceptions.
This is good for many reasons. It's mechanically simpler, and it means that characters with Burst weapons still have a reason to be excited at that 20 even when fighting something immune to crits.
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Agreed, great question Wraith, great answer Jason! Thanks.
Now, we just need to know what creatures are actually fully immune to criticals.
I do it with a knowledge check currently, to access the vulnerable point for rogues.
There's no hardline definition in the box, will this be included in the Bestiary or in the Official release?
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
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Agreed, great question Wraith, great answer Jason! Thanks.
Now, we just need to know what creatures are actually fully immune to criticals.
I do it with a knowledge check currently, to access the vulnerable point for rogues.
There's no hardline definition in the box, will this be included in the Bestiary or in the Official release?
My guesses are oozes and incorporeal undead...
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My guesses are oozes and incorporeal undead...Agreed, great question Wraith, great answer Jason! Thanks.
Now, we just need to know what creatures are actually fully immune to criticals.
I do it with a knowledge check currently, to access the vulnerable point for rogues.
There's no hardline definition in the box, will this be included in the Bestiary or in the Official release?
What about a Shambling mound? A roper? I'd just like a list of stuff that is immune, though with certain things, I prefer the Knowledge check for 2 reasons...1 it makes knowledge skills important, a skill that is overlooked too often. (example: The cleric makes his knowledge religion check and shouts, "Remove the zombie's heads!"). 2. It resolves what are and what AREN't immune to criticals.
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Director of Games
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My guesses are oozes and incorporeal undead...Agreed, great question Wraith, great answer Jason! Thanks.
Now, we just need to know what creatures are actually fully immune to criticals.
I do it with a knowledge check currently, to access the vulnerable point for rogues.
There's no hardline definition in the box, will this be included in the Bestiary or in the Official release?
You are very close to the list.. there are some other exceptions.. but they are by no means common.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
I think there needs to be a quick clear clarification made.
Jason - by "burst activates on every critical hit, regardless of creature struck", do you mean
a) Every time a threat roll (that would hit), is confirmed, the burst activates.
or b) Every time a creature suffers a critical hit from your weapon, the burst activates.
(Hoping the former).
There is a need to define the "Sneak Attack" sidebar more precisely. Currently, as written, the rule applies to sneak damage only. It needs to be stated that it also applies to critical hits, as Jason's post in this thread seems to indicate. It might also be useful to indicate if this rule also extends to other kinds of damages, even if these might be from closed sources. WotC used the term "precision damage" to encompass sneak, skirmish (scout) and sudden strike (ninja). Something similar should be done here to make this rule less ambiguous.
Even more ambiguity can be eliminated by indicating that creatures are immune to sneak attacks/critical hits/precision damage by stating it explicitly in their Bestiary description with a special ability.
Since most creatures are no longer immune to crits
When did that happen? Not that I don't welcome it. I just didn't know it was official.
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Director of Games
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Since most creatures are no longer immune to critsWhen did that happen? Not that I don't welcome it. I just didn't know it was official.
That is a change that I have always thought was in the rules, but it turns out that it is not really explicitly stated anywhere.
So.. here ya go...
Most creatures are no longer immune to critical hits or precision based damage. Those that are immune to one, are usually immune to both. The bestiary will clear up a lot of this confusion.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
That is a change that I have always thought was in the rules, but it turns out that it is not really explicitly stated anywhere.
So.. here ya go...
Most creatures are no longer immune to critical hits or precision based damage. Those that are immune to one, are usually immune to both. The bestiary will clear up a lot of this confusion.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Thanks for clearing that up!