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2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
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I ran a game a couple weeks ago and had one of the PCs use Rope Trick in an intersting fashion. I went ahead and ruled for him to do it this time, I'd like to get some clarifications so that it doesn't become a habit (because it can be extremely overpowering).
1) As an extra-dimensional space, can it be shaped however the caster likes? For instance, does the rope have to come in through the bottom or can they have it come through the side? (If it's coming in through the side, the people inside can block unauthorized entry by standing in the entry square.)
2) Summoning spells - can they be cast inside the the monsters sent out? This is my major concern, as you can hide inside it and send monster after monster out after the enemies. I know that ROpe Trick says spells can't e cast into or out of the rope trick, but the Summon spell isn't cast outside or through.
3) If the rope is destroyed, does the spell end or are the occupants trapped inside until the spell ends?
Any help that can be provided would be awesome. I thought I recalled something about the caster having to remain on the same plane as his summoned creatures, but try as I might I couldn't find anything to back it up.
Thanks
Yaramos wrote: 1) As an extra-dimensional space, can it be shaped however the caster likes? For instance, does the rope have to come in through the bottom or can they have it come through the side? (If it's coming in through the side, the people inside can block unauthorized entry by standing in the entry square.) I'm not aware of anything that says this is so. I also don't think it's an unreasonable assertion by the player. Regardless, a person can block the entry square wherever it resides. But once folks on the outside are aware the way in is blocked, they can use the normal means of passing that square (bull rush, overrun, Acrobatics, etc.).
Yaramos wrote: 2) Summoning spells - can they be cast inside the the monsters sent out? This is my major concern, as you can hide inside it and send monster after monster out after the enemies. I know that ROpe Trick says spells can't e cast into or out of the rope trick, but the Summon spell isn't cast outside or through. I've had to rule on this as a GM before. I say the summoned creature (if the summoner is able to command it to climb down the rope, need a shared language for that) winks out after exiting the extra-dimensional space, since summoned creatures are barred from planar travel.
Yaramos wrote: 3) If the rope is destroyed, does the spell end or are the occupants trapped inside until the spell ends? Neither, I think. Folks inside the extra-dimensional space just don't have an easy means of exit, and folks outside the space can't find the entrance as easily.
Also, if your players are giving you grief with this spell, give it back.
Tom Baumbach wrote:
Yaramos wrote: 3) If the rope is destroyed, does the spell end or are the occupants trapped inside until the spell ends? Neither, I think. Folks inside the extra-dimensional space just don't have an easy means of exit, and folks outside the space can't find the entrance as easily.
Playing it this way could be problematic. The reason that the spell was changed from 3.5 (where you could pull the rope in after you) to PF (where you couldn't) was to make it easier for opponents to find the party, thus limiting its usefulness (some would say, abuse). If the rope can be cut/destroyed, then there's no real reason not to, thus returning the spell to it's 3.5 incarnation.
Now, how to rule on it? I don't have a clue. Time to hit the FAQ button.
Tom Baumbach wrote: Yaramos wrote: 1) As an extra-dimensional space, can it be shaped however the caster likes? For instance, does the rope have to come in through the bottom or can they have it come through the side? (If it's coming in through the side, the people inside can block unauthorized entry by standing in the entry square.) I'm not aware of anything that says this is so. I also don't think it's an unreasonable assertion by the player. Regardless, a person can block the entry square wherever it resides. But once folks on the outside are aware the way in is blocked, they can use the normal means of passing that square (bull rush, overrun, Acrobatics, etc.). I feel silly. I hadn't thought about acrobatics. I was busy trying to figure out how to bull rush up a rope... However, I'm thinking there should be a Fort save (DC 15) to keep from being nauseated at the change of gravity if the orientation is other than up through the middle.
Tom Baumbach wrote: Yaramos wrote: 2) Summoning spells - can they be cast inside the the monsters sent out? This is my major concern, as you can hide inside it and send monster after monster out after the enemies. I know that ROpe Trick says spells can't e cast into or out of the rope trick, but the Summon spell isn't cast outside or through. I've had to rule on this as a GM before. I say the summoned creature (if the summoner is able to command it to climb down the rope, need a shared language for that) winks out after exiting the extra-dimensional space, since summoned creatures are barred from planar travel.
The Core Rulebook says only that "A summoned monster cannot summon or otherwise conjure another creature, nor can it use any teleportation or planar travel abilities." Leaving a rope trick isn't a planar travel ability. However, any creature leaving the rope trick would be subject to the fort save I mentioned above. Additionally, an acrobatics check when leaving to land on their feet if they can't climb out.
Thanks for the input! It's got me thinking on ways to make it useful, but not overpowering. Any input on these ideas would be vreat, too!
Mynameisjake wrote: Tom Baumbach wrote:
Yaramos wrote: 3) If the rope is destroyed, does the spell end or are the occupants trapped inside until the spell ends? Neither, I think. Folks inside the extra-dimensional space just don't have an easy means of exit, and folks outside the space can't find the entrance as easily.
Playing it this way could be problematic. The reason that the spell was changed from 3.5 (where you could pull the rope in after you) to PF (where you couldn't) was to make it easier for opponents to find the party, thus limiting its usefulness (some would say, abuse). If the rope can be cut/destroyed, then there's no real reason not to, thus returning the spell to it's 3.5 incarnation.
Now, how to rule on it? I don't have a clue. Time to hit the FAQ button. Hmm. I'm with Mynameisjake on this one. Given than it specifically mentions that the rope can't be removed or hidden, but that it can be pulled free with an insane amount of weight (around a 35 STR score). I'm thinking that the spell should also have a focus, that being the rope. If the rope is removed from the spell, the spell ends. However, I'd counter it by giving the rope something like a hardness of 25. Prevent most things that don't have an insane strength from cutting it, either.
A little more reading has my brain going. Please give me some feedback.
1) The spell specifically states that "the upper end is, in fact, fastened to an extradimensional space..." - This to me sounds like the rope ends at the outside of the rope trick, and does not go inside it (much like a rope ladder ends at a trap door, rather than continuing up another 5'). Also, if the rope went inside then a 5' rope wouldn't be outside the rope trick.
2) "... one end of the rope rises into the air until the whole rope hangs perpendicular to the ground, ..." - if the rope can't extend its whole distance, (such as using a 15' piece of rope in a 10' high room), the spell fails. (This also ties in to question 1 - if the rope does extend inside the extradimensional space, then anything in excess of the ceiling height would extend into the space.)
3) "When this spell is cast on a piece of rope from 5 to 30 feet long, ..." - If cast on a 50' piece of rope, this spell should fail. Additionally, you must have the appropriate sized rope. You can't cast the spell on your 30' rope and have it only go up 5'.
4) "Spells cannot be cast across the extradimensional interface, ..." - Can someone lean out and cast a spell, or do they fully have to exit to cast? For instance, can a cleric take a move action to lean out and then cast?
a) If they did, would they have cover since only part of them is in this dimension?
5) How can you determine spash damage if an alchemist fire was thrown in since there's no description of size or layout?
I'm leaning towards intepreting the size of the space as exactly what's needed to hold the number of people inside it. If there's one medium-sized creature in it, there's a 5'x5' area in addition to the entrance. If there are 2 large and 3 medium, then it would have 11 squares - 2 sets of 10'x10' and 3 at 5'x5'. Again, these are all in addition to the entrance.
Again, any ideas on this would be great. Thanks.
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