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I am just about to start playing in a Kingmaker game as a Elven Wizard with a monkey familiar. I have never played a wizard with a familiar before and I am not really sure how this works. Mostly who controls the Familiar, the player or the GM, or some combo of the two?
Do I use the Handle Animal to push it to do things? Do I train it to do things for me? What if I want it to fetch me beer, or potions or a key, do I have to teach to fetch? Do I get a bonus for having an empathic link with the Familiar? Does its high intel (6 at first level) make it easier to train, or does it just mean it can learn more tricks.
I am not looking to get something extra here, just trying to figure out how it should work, and why it works that way.
How I have ran it, and how I see it most often done for those players that actually use their Familiar is that the creature is obdient to the caster. It is intelligent, and therefore capable of complex actions (though at lower level these are still at the level that an Int 6 character would perform at). The familiar uses the wizard's skill ranks (if higher than the familiar's own) and if it possesses the means to do so can accomplish anything those feats allow.
For example with hands your monkey could pick locks with the proper tools. If you had an improved familiar like a psuedo dragon it could talk (since it has languages) and use tools (like a dragon can) run messages, and so forth.
Remember the more you use a familiar the more a GM notices it, so don't take overly advantage of it, otherwise he's going to note it's position in combat as well, and could target the familiar (though this generally isn't too much of an issue).
I have had a familiar use the Use Magic Device skill to cast spells from wands and what not before, or just hand me things from my backpack.
People still use Familiars? O.O
*Is genuinely shocked at this since Bonded Object is so good imo*
People still use Familiars? O.O
*Is genuinely shocked at this since Bonded Object is so good imo*
Bonded Object is ok, extra actions are much better however.
Extra Actions? Please explain. Maybe I've been looking at Familiars all wrong.
To clarify what Abraham Spalding said:
Your monkey is not an animal. It is way, way more intelligent. It's more like a dwarf...
OK, j/k. It's even smarter than a dwarf...
Still kidding. But at a 6 INT it really is much smarter than a 1 or 2 INT animal. In fact, a human with 6 INT could still get a job. Probably not a scientist, but he could probably be a dock worker, street paver, fisherman, brick layer, etc.
So your monkey is at least that smart.
Which means you don't have to "push" it or use Handle Animal on it. It understand what you want, up to a point (no, it can't do your Calculus homework for you). But where a druid might have to train a natural monky to fetch something, you only have to ask your familiar to do it.
To answer your other question, you (the player, not the wizard) should control your familiar, but you should remember that it is a separate creature with a mind of its own, so it's not just an extension of your wizard. Your familiar might be more like Scooby Doo (reluctant to do any real work, scared of his own shadow, but he'll do anything for a Scooby Snack or a Sandwich).
Ultimately, it's up to the DM to allow you to use your familiar however you want. After all, it's your class ability. If the DM prevents you from using it, well, that's kinda like telling a rogue he can't use Sneak Attack or a monk that he can't use Flurry of Blows. But, it's also up to the DM to intervene if you try to abuse it - your familiar is a friend, a companion, and a servant, but it's not suicidal and it usually won't go against its base alignment or do things that are generally "unfamiliar-ish".
Extra Actions? Please explain. Maybe I've been looking at Familiars all wrong.max umd, monkeys have thumbs. hand it a wand and you can churn out an extra spell a round
This. Generally I rely on my familiar to pick locks when the rogue is busy in combat, hand me scrolls from my pack (saving me my actions) use wands of haste and the like (buffing stuff that doesn't worry on caster level and save throws) and the like.
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Ok I think I see how this might work out then. I actually plan to play it like I really like my familiar, just like I like my dog in real life, it's part of the family. I don't plan to make it do things that would endanger it. And I am very aware that the GM may target it if its too useful.
A few things I have thought about it doing is to pour potions in the mouths of downed characters. Or if that is not do-able maybe just smelling salts so we can drink our own potions.
Spying for me will not help much until we can talk to each other. But stealing small items for me can work.
I guess my only fear now is that the GM isnt going to like how useful I can make a little monkey friend.
Thanks for the help guys.
(Quasta I hope you see this post)
Talk to your GM about it. Most GM's hate surprises more than tactics. If you talk to him before you start showing everything your familiar can do he will be prepared, and not feel threatened by your surprising and remarkably useful tactics.
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yeah we talked about it over email today, and he did see what I was saying but he was not sure either and said he would look in to it.
Do you think my potion and/or smelling salt idea will work?
(The reason I didn't go with the bonded object is because losing it or getting it destroyed seemed like it would hurt too much. Yeah it stores a spell, but can it go get me a beer or enjoy a pipe with me? Nope.
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Your familiar can be a useful tool for the DM as well. As a fan of familiars, I hate to see them treated like equipment, exiled to the cramped confines of a backpack until they're services are needed, so I encourage you to hand over some of the control of the familiar to your DM when you aren't directly using it. The DM can use your little friend to drop hints and even surprise you with tactics or actions you didn't think the familiar was capable of as it gets smarter.
As far as smelling salts, potions, etc., I always let my players' familiars do everything within their power to save their masters. Intelligence and ability still come into play, but the familiar usually sees its master as a friend and they're smart enough to at least attempt a rescue or resuscitation. Of course, if the player usually treats the familiar like crap, well, they're lucky if the familiar doesn't start swapping the labels on the wizard's bottles.
yeah we talked about it over email today, and he did see what I was saying but he was not sure either and said he would look in to it.
Do you think my potion and/or smelling salt idea will work?
(The reason I didn't go with the bonded object is because losing it or getting it destroyed seemed like it would hurt too much. Yeah it stores a spell, but can it go get me a beer or enjoy a pipe with me? Nope.
The potion idea should work -- the familiar will have to spend the full round action pouring it down the throat but beyond that it should be fine.
Generally if a GM is iffy about allowing the familiar to use UMD, then he'll generally be good with using the familiar as a butler to fetch the items you want to use instead -- since getting stuff out is normally a move or standard action the familiar is still saving you actions, and pouring a drink down someone's throat is something already covered by the rules (i.e. it takes a full round action and provokes).
Don't forget that if the familiar is in your square you provide it cover, meaning it doesn't provoke AoO's (and it can be in your square if you are medium and it is tiny).
I think this will be really handy to use. What part of the rules can I point to in support of this sort of action?
Don't forget that if the familiar is in your square you provide it cover, meaning it doesn't provoke AoO's (and it can be in your square if you are medium and it is tiny).
Alright this is going to be a bit technical but bare with me, I got to bring all the pieces together:
First off:
Very Small Creature: A Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creature can move into or through an occupied square.
So this states that a tiny or smaller creature can move into an occupied square. Since he can move into it, he can stay in it -- indeed he has to if he's going to attack anyone, since he can't move in, attack, and then move back out.
Now on to Cover:
To determine whether your target has cover from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target's square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature, the target has cover (+4 to AC).
Now the familiar is in your square. The opponent draws a line from any of his corners to the back corners of the square that you and your familiar occupy and it of course passes through the square occupied by you on it's way to the back corner. Since the square is occupied (by you) the familiar has cover.
Also from the cover rules:
Cover and Attacks of Opportunity: You can't execute an attack of opportunity against an opponent with cover relative to you.
Now your GM could state that this is soft cover:
Soft Cover: Creatures, even your enemies, can provide you with cover against ranged attacks, giving you a +4 bonus to AC. However, such soft cover provides no bonus on Reflex saves, nor does soft cover allow you to make a Stealth check.
But that only helps him a little bit:
When making a melee attack against an adjacent target, your target has cover if any line from any corner of your square to the target's square goes through a wall (including a low wall). When making a melee attack against a target that isn't adjacent to you (such as with a reach weapon), use the rules for determining cover from ranged attacks.
So for those big creatures that are using superior reach, even if the GM decides that you only provide soft cover, it counts (until they move up adjacent to your square).
This doesn't help if your familiar moves out of your square to attack (say to deliver a touch attack) but until it does that you are good.
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I often see people suggesting a familiar taking ranks in UMD and I'm wondering how they go about doing this? Since familiars use the wizards skill ranks and UMD is not a class skill for wizards and is also trained only, how does the monkey go about getting UMD without the owner taking a multiclass? Or am I missing something completely obvious?
I often see people suggesting a familiar taking ranks in UMD and I'm wondering how they go about doing this? Since familiars use the wizards skill ranks and UMD is not a class skill for wizards and is also trained only, how does the monkey go about getting UMD without the owner taking a multiclass? Or am I missing something completely obvious?
The fact that the skill system has changed maybe?
Even without multiclassing you can have a rank per level in UMD. You don't get the +3 class bonus, but then the familiar probably won't get that bonus anyways (unless it's an improved familiar).
Improved familiars generally have better charisma scores than the wizard they are with so since they only use the ranks from the wizard they will probably have a better overall bonus than the wizard does (since it's his ranks plus their stat mod and if they are a dragon or outsider plus the class skill bonus).
All you really need to beat with UMD is DC 20.
I often see people suggesting a familiar taking ranks in UMD and I'm wondering how they go about doing this? Since familiars use the wizards skill ranks and UMD is not a class skill for wizards and is also trained only, how does the monkey go about getting UMD without the owner taking a multiclass? Or am I missing something completely obvious?
Any character can spend skill points to take ranks in any skill; not just those that are their class skills. The only difference in it being a class skill is that the character will either gain an additional +3 bonus to their skill checks if it is or forgo the +3 bonus if it isn't a class skill. That's it.
So, a wizard can buy as many ranks in Use Magic Device as he has levels and adds his Charisma bonus (or penalty) to the skill check. Since a wizard's familiar gains the same skill ranks as his master then it gets to make the same UMD skill checks (using its own Charisma modifier).
Edit: D'oh. Ninja'ed!
Condescension aside thanks for pointing that out Abraham.
Yeah that came out wrong sorry.
I meant: "Maybe you forgot that the skill system changed?"
as a query instead of: "Yo the skill system changed fool."
but it didn't type out like I meant it to.
I often see people suggesting a familiar taking ranks in UMD and I'm wondering how they go about doing this? Since familiars use the wizards skill ranks and UMD is not a class skill for wizards and is also trained only, how does the monkey go about getting UMD without the owner taking a multiclass? Or am I missing something completely obvious?
What I want to know is how familiars who can't talk are using wands. Don't wands require a key word or phrase to activate?
A monkey familiar has hands, but no ability to talk. Go with a raven and it can talk, but then it has no hands. :/
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I often see people suggesting a familiar taking ranks in UMD and I'm wondering how they go about doing this? Since familiars use the wizards skill ranks and UMD is not a class skill for wizards and is also trained only, how does the monkey go about getting UMD without the owner taking a multiclass? Or am I missing something completely obvious?What I want to know is how familiars who can't talk are using wands. Don't wands require a key word or phrase to activate?
A monkey familiar has hands, but no ability to talk. Go with a raven and it can talk, but then it has no hands. :/
Homunculus, Quasits, or Mephits anybody? :D
Also share-spells/Mage Hand for your raven, or share-spells/Tongues. Or a magic item that allows your familiar either of these at will.
Homunculus, Quasits, or Mephits anybody? :D
My point still stands as no one has mentioned the above familiars before you. I personally prefer consular imps.
Homunculus, Quasits, or Mephits anybody? :DMy point still stands as no one has mentioned the above familiars before you. I personally prefer consular imps.
Use Magic Device covers using a wand incorrectly -- i.e. not having the normal ability to do so.
Also Dragons can speak, as can outsiders (something I did mention earlier) and while the monkey can't speak it can make noises... hang around a wizard long enough with the intelligence that the monkey has it's going to figure out how to... ape... the sounds to some extent.
What I want to know is how familiars who can't talk are using wands. Don't wands require a key word or phrase to activate?
Activate blindly is normally used.
-James
That'd be DC 25, though I believe... odds are your monkey won't be making good enough use of that skill to be successful until higher levels, right?
If my monkey familiar kept failing those UMD checks, I would so discipline him...
Use Magic Device covers using a wand incorrectly -- i.e. not having the normal ability to do so.
To be fair, though, the appropriate DC is 25. The DC 20 check to use a wand only waives the requirement that you have the spell on your class spell list.
Activate blindly, at DC 25, allows you to "activate such an item as if you were using the activation word, thought, or action, even when you're not" -- which is what a creature incapable of speech is always doing. After successfully using it once they'll get +2 on the check.
Edit: NINJAS EVERYWHERE
Well to be fair we aren't just talking about a monkey here though.
Again with the improved familiars and speaking or with the having more ranks for higher levels.
If you are really worried about it just have tongues cast permanently on your familiar at which point you are back to the DC 20.
At lower levels I'm more likely to have my familiar handing me stuff, or throwing alchemical items anyways.
Well to be fair we aren't just talking about a monkey here though.
Again with the improved familiars and speaking or with the having more ranks for higher levels.
If you are really worried about it just have tongues cast permanently on your familiar at which point you are back to the DC 20.
At lower levels I'm more likely to have my familiar handing me stuff, or throwing alchemical items anyways.
*Resists the urge to make numerous simian and banana-related jokes*