Summoner questions...

[matt potter 216]

Hello everyone, long time reader first time poster...

So I have a couple questions about the summoner class abilities, specifically the life bond and life link abilities. Now with life link it says:

"Whenever the eidolon takes enough damage to send it back to its home plane, the summoner can, as a free action, sacrifice any number of hit points. Each hit point sacrificed in this way prevents 1 point of damage done to the eidolon. This can prevent the eidolon from being sent back to its home plane." Now unless I am mistaken, free actions have to be taken on your turn, so if your eidolon takes damage when it isn't your turn he gets sent home? Or does this mean that you can give up hit points on your turn?

Now for my next question, life bond states:

"As long as the eidolon has 1 or more hit points, the summoner cannot be killed. Damage in excess of that which would kill the summoner is instead transferred to the eidolon. This damage is transferred 1 point at a time, meaning that as soon as the eidolon is reduced to a number of negative hit points equal to its Constitution score, all excess damage remains with the summoner, killing him" So my question with this one is, if your summoner has say a 10 con. and gets hit to -13 hit points he would normally be dead, with this ability those extra 4 hit points instead get transfered to your eidolon keeping you alive, but it also states earlier under the eidolon ability: "If the summoner is unconscious, asleep, or killed, his eidolon is immediately banished." So when the summoners hit points reach -1 he is unconcious and his eidolon is banished but can it still absorb hit points after being banished?

Thanks for reading everyone, I hope this isn't to wordy!

[Themetricsystem]

I hate to sound condescending but next time, try the search function first... or just scroll down a little ways, there is already a thread about this on the front page.

Link

[matt potter 216]

Woops, forgot about the search function.... Thanks for the link though.

[Are]

matt potter 216 wrote:

Now unless I am mistaken, free actions have to be taken on your turn, so if your eidolon takes damage when it isn't your turn he gets sent home? Or does this mean that you can give up hit points on your turn?

You can take free actions even when it is not your turn. The actions you can only take on your own turn are full-round, standard, move, and swift actions.

[Papa-DRB]

To be pedantic,

You can take Immediate Action(s) when not your turn. You can only take Free Action(s) on your turn. Core Rulebook Page 181-182.

-- david
Papa.DRB

Are wrote:

matt potter 216 wrote:

Now unless I am mistaken, free actions have to be taken on your turn, so if your eidolon takes damage when it isn't your turn he gets sent home? Or does this mean that you can give up hit points on your turn?

You can take free actions even when it is not your turn. The actions you can only take on your own turn are full-round, standard, move, and swift actions.

[Are]

Papa-DRB wrote:

To be pedantic,

You can take Immediate Action(s) when not your turn. You can only take Free Action(s) on your turn. Core Rulebook Page 181-182.

Those pages don't say you can only take free actions on your turn. It doesn't specify one way or the other, beyond "there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free".

Speaking, for instance, is a free action. You can certainly speak when it isn't your turn.

[The Wraith]

Are wrote:

Papa-DRB wrote:

To be pedantic,

You can take Immediate Action(s) when not your turn. You can only take Free Action(s) on your turn. Core Rulebook Page 181-182.

Those pages don't say you can only take free actions on your turn. It doesn't specify one way or the other, beyond "there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free".

Speaking, for instance, is a free action. You can certainly speak when it isn't your turn.

This is because Speaking is an exception to the basic rules.

PRD -> Combat -> Actions in Combat -> Free Actions:

"Speak
In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn’t your turn. Speaking more than a few sentences is generally beyond the limit of a free action."

And the rules for Immediate Action say:

"Immediate Actions
Much like a swift action, an immediate action consumes a very small amount of time but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time—even if it’s not your turn."

The trick is, during your turn you can take Free Actions; when it's not your turn, you can only take some Free Actions (like speaking) and an Immediate Action. This is because of the 'intro' of 'Actions in Combat':

"During one turn, there are a wide variety of actions that your character can perform, from swinging a sword to casting a spell."

(in fact, the generic description of Immediate Actions says, again, 'An immediate action is very similar to a swift action, but can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn.')

Just my 2c.

[Gjorbjond]

The Wraith wrote:

The trick is, during your turn you can take Free Actions; when it's not your turn, you can only take some Free Actions (like speaking) and an Immediate Action. This is because of the 'intro' of 'Actions in Combat'

I think it's obvious from the context that this is intended to be one of those exceptions. It would be horrible as an immediate action since you only get one of those per round, and a "free action you can only take on your turn" would limit it to saving the eidolon from dying from an attack of opportunity.

[The Wraith]

Gjorbjond wrote:

The Wraith wrote:

The trick is, during your turn you can take Free Actions; when it's not your turn, you can only take some Free Actions (like speaking) and an Immediate Action. This is because of the 'intro' of 'Actions in Combat'

I think it's obvious from the context that this is intended to be one of those exceptions. It would be horrible as an immediate action since you only get one of those per round, and a "free action you can only take on your turn" would limit it to saving the eidolon from dying from an attack of opportunity.

I don't deny it, but IMHO it should have been spelled more clearly in the description. I will personally use it in the way you - and others - are reading it, just pointing out that it would need a little written clarification. A Rules-Lawyer could simply object that the Summoner cannot save the Eidolon, otherwise.

Just my 2c.

[Are]

The Wraith wrote:

(in fact, the generic description of Immediate Actions says, again, 'An immediate action is very similar to a swift action, but can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn.')

Exactly. It says it is very similar to a swift action, not that it is very similar to a free action.

If you then go a little further up, you notice that the description for swift action says it "represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action".

To me, that means that both swift and immediate actions are more restrictive than free actions, and that free actions can be used regardless of whose turn it is.

[Cormac]

This doesn't help OP but concerning free actions I found from Rules of the Game - Actions Part 2 this: "You cannot use a free action during another creature's turn. Speaking is an exception; you can speak during another creature's turn (see page 144 in the Player's Handbook)."

But... this is "wrong" edition and not even from rule book but from WotC archive... (great archive btw, use as you wish :)

[cfalcon]

In 3.0, you could definitely take free actions at any time. In 3.5 it was changed partway through, with some pretty serious rules ramifications. Pathfinder does not seem to have taken the blurb that you can't take free actions when not your turn, but it did get the blurb about the speaking.

Having free actions only happen on your turn has some odd things go on, such as being able to stop concentrating on a spell when damaged by an enemy on their turn, but not on their turn otherwise.

Based on the inclusion of the text under speaking, I would *assume* that you can't take free actions when not your turn- but I don't think anything in the rules *states* that, as other posters have pointed out.

Obviously the intent on the Eidolon is clear- it's intended to work in cases beyond "you punch your own Eidolon".