I will try to make this short
Background: Dabbler made a thread asking about why psionics are not liked, but he only wanted the antipsionic crowd to participate. What this basically amounts to is opinions and definite untruths being being posted. I have several issues with the idea, but those are in the thread itself.
I have never seen anyone see anything they care for being treated badly and that person just sit back and do nothing. Why would anyone agree to that? Recent(within the past few months) information on the subject is available so it is not like anything new is coming out it. You can take the word psionics out use monks, fighters, or whatever you care about.
The bolded areas are where the focus should be. That makes it a general topic and not about psionics.
PS: I only used monks and fighters because they get picked on a lot.
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To be fair, the thread posed a specific question and was intended as a medium to discuss that specific matter. There is nothing wrong with a topic that is as specific as that.
In fact I think it better to leave the thread to remain as is intended, to discuss why people have issues with psionics lest it turn into one giant flamewar like most other psionics thread I've seen on the boards.
...
I have never seen anyone see anything they care for being treated badly and that person just sit back and do nothing. Why would anyone agree to that? Recent(within the past few months) information on the subject is available so it is not like anything new is coming out it....
I'm new here but... erm... these are discussions about the rules of a game. It's really not worth getting that worked up about them.
Unless, of course, you were the person who wrote those rules then of course you would be totally within your rights to defend your hard work.
I will try to make this short
Background: Dabbler made a thread asking about why psionics are not liked, but he only wanted the antipsionic crowd to participate. What this basically amounts to is opinions and definite untruths being being posted. I have several issues with the idea, but those are in the thread itself.I have never seen anyone see anything they care for being treated badly and that person just sit back and do nothing. Why would anyone agree to that? Recent(within the past few months) information on the subject is available so it is not like anything new is coming out it. You can take the word psionics out use monks, fighters, or whatever you care about.
The bolded areas are where the focus should be. That makes it a general topic and not about psionics.
PS: I only used monks and fighters because they get picked on a lot.
I know the reason I was looking for in that thread was to be able to get a good list of what the issues/misconceptions are. That way you can determine the way future conversations need to occur to help people get rid of the misconceptions in a way that is not confrontational. A lot of people when told "you are wrong" just hunker down with their misconception and stop listening. That doesn't help either side in the discussion.
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I know the reason I was looking for in that thread was to be able to get a good list of what the issues/misconceptions are. That way you can determine the way future conversations need to occur to help people get rid of the misconceptions in a way that is not confrontational. A lot of people when told "you are wrong" just hunker down with their misconception and stop listening. That doesn't help either side in the discussion.I will try to make this short
Background: Dabbler made a thread asking about why psionics are not liked, but he only wanted the antipsionic crowd to participate. What this basically amounts to is opinions and definite untruths being being posted. I have several issues with the idea, but those are in the thread itself.I have never seen anyone see anything they care for being treated badly and that person just sit back and do nothing. Why would anyone agree to that? Recent(within the past few months) information on the subject is available so it is not like anything new is coming out it. You can take the word psionics out use monks, fighters, or whatever you care about.
The bolded areas are where the focus should be. That makes it a general topic and not about psionics.
PS: I only used monks and fighters because they get picked on a lot.
They started it. :)
But seriously, look in the past psionics thread. It's always somebody going overboard with how psionics are bad, broken, and banned. And then the pro-psionics people jump in.
There's no way to resolve the situation because it requires people to not post, and requires active moderation. That's not gonna happen.
To be fair, the thread posed a specific question and was intended as a medium to discuss that specific matter. There is nothing wrong with a topic that is as specific as that.
In fact I think it better to leave the thread to remain as is intended, to discuss why people have issues with psionics lest it turn into one giant flamewar like most other psionics thread I've seen on the boards.
If I go into a forum not liking cars made by Ford, and nobody else likes Fords then when I leave I still won't like Fords in that situation.
How is that helpful to Ford as a company if they just had people tell them what they did not like within the past few months, and the complaints made a few months ago were the same ones made 5 years, and nothing had changed.All I see is the same people not liking your product, which has not changed, pretty much means the results won't change.
Mr. Franklin has the right of it.
Further I suspect dabbler is looking at writing a Pathfinder psionics product and wishes to broaden his audience beyond the current psionics fans. To do that he needs input from the anti-psionics crowd. Input you were actively obstructing.
I know the reason I was looking for in that thread was to be able to get a good list of what the issues/misconceptions are. That way you can determine the way future conversations need to occur to help people get rid of the misconceptions in a way that is not confrontational. A lot of people when told "you are wrong" just hunker down with their misconception and stop listening. That doesn't help either side in the discussion.I will try to make this short
Background: Dabbler made a thread asking about why psionics are not liked, but he only wanted the antipsionic crowd to participate. What this basically amounts to is opinions and definite untruths being being posted. I have several issues with the idea, but those are in the thread itself.I have never seen anyone see anything they care for being treated badly and that person just sit back and do nothing. Why would anyone agree to that? Recent(within the past few months) information on the subject is available so it is not like anything new is coming out it. You can take the word psionics out use monks, fighters, or whatever you care about.
The bolded areas are where the focus should be. That makes it a general topic and not about psionics.
PS: I only used monks and fighters because they get picked on a lot.
They started it. :)
But seriously, look in the past psionics thread. It's always somebody going overboard with how psionics are bad, broken, and banned. And then the pro-psionics people jump in.
There's no way to resolve the situation because it requires people to not post, and requires active moderation. That's not gonna happen.
I expect the pro-side of anything to jump in. If I make a fighters suck, monks suck thread or 4E sucks thread I won't make it to 10 post before someone is defending them.
PS: I don't blame the defenders either unless I can give them a good reason to be quiet.
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If I go into a forum not liking cars made by Ford, and nobody else likes Fords then when I leave I still won't like Fords in that situation.
How is that helpful to Ford as a company if they just had people tell them what they did not like within the past few months, and the complaints made a few months ago were the same ones made 5 years, and nothing had changed.
All I see is the same people not liking your product, which has not changed, pretty much means the results won't change.
From the standpoint of the company (Paizo) I think they would be better served by a discussion about what features and systems people didn't like about something you are developing than one discussing how it already currently works. The people working for the great purple golem in the sky already understand psionics and how it works, but they can always use market information about what their customers don't like or would have changed.
I have not seen a week go by on these boards where there is a 100+ post thread about what paizo should do about psionics holding steady on the front page. I think thinning the subject down and refining it into something manageable and focused is actually worth doing. It is like when you are doing your bills, do you just jam everything related to taxes in one box and be done with it, or do you organize by employer, date, receipts, and property?
Mr. Franklin has the right of it.
Further I suspect dabbler is looking at writing a Pathfinder psionics product and wishes to broaden his audience beyond the current psionics fans. To do that he needs input from the anti-psionics crowd. Input you were actively obstructing.
Mr.Dabbler should have let his intentions be known. Saying don't do something that is against human nature without a good reason is very likely to fail.
He also has large threads which I hand-delivered to him if he needs to do research. If he had checked the dates on those thread he would know that 2 of them are current, and even the one that is years old has arguments and fallacies that come up. By checking the those thread he also would have known how heated things get, and to not expect for people to idly stand by. I think the thread was started in good faith, but asking people nicely to let you shoot them in the foot still requires them to be shot.
To be fair, the thread posed a specific question and was intended as a medium to discuss that specific matter. There is nothing wrong with a topic that is as specific as that.
In fact I think it better to leave the thread to remain as is intended, to discuss why people have issues with psionics lest it turn into one giant flamewar like most other psionics thread I've seen on the boards.
I agree
I hate when some people try to support a biased point of view with any kind of propaganda, as if the biased opinion of 100 pro-XYZ guys would be of any use for the rest of the world. But I agree that it wasn't the case. It is more like a poll, there is a diference between asking "what don't you like about psionics" and "let's discuss the best way to tell Paizo that we don't like psionics".
I know the reason I was looking for in that thread was to be able to get a good list of what the issues/misconceptions are. That way you can determine the way future conversations need to occur to help people get rid of the misconceptions in a way that is not confrontational. A lot of people when told "you are wrong" just hunker down with their misconception and stop listening. That doesn't help either side in the discussion.I will try to make this short
Background: Dabbler made a thread asking about why psionics are not liked, but he only wanted the antipsionic crowd to participate. What this basically amounts to is opinions and definite untruths being being posted. I have several issues with the idea, but those are in the thread itself.I have never seen anyone see anything they care for being treated badly and that person just sit back and do nothing. Why would anyone agree to that? Recent(within the past few months) information on the subject is available so it is not like anything new is coming out it. You can take the word psionics out use monks, fighters, or whatever you care about.
The bolded areas are where the focus should be. That makes it a general topic and not about psionics.
PS: I only used monks and fighters because they get picked on a lot.
It is not as simple as being told you are wrong. Being told an opinion is wrong and being told a fact is wrong with proof are not the same thing. I am not saying that nobody was told their opinion was wrong, but lumping them together should not be done.
Prof C ask a question, but he put facts up front first to get an answer, and people seemed to get really upset, and refused to even address the issue. Even if they would have only said "that is how I feel, even though D&D magic came from a techno-sorcery book" that would have been ok. Some things just don't feel right to people, and sometimes you just have to accept it.
You mean, the OP point is valid, but he should wait for a subsequent thread.
I mean, once the "I don't like" are ended, we can start with:
"Psionics: Actual Problems and Common Misconceptions".
It is more like a poll, there is a difference between asking "what don't you like about psionics" and "let's discuss the best way to tell Paizo that we don't like psionics".
You have a point, but there is a thin line between the two. At what point do you go from saying I dont like A and B about X to it becoming a multi-person rant against X.
[b]I have never seen anyone see anything they care for being treated badly and that person just sit back and do nothing. Why would anyone agree to that?
1) I think the whole point is that you have free will and no one is forcing you to read the thread and see the thing you love being criticized. There are lots of threads. If one doesn't appeal to you, don't read it.
2) It is generally polite to try and follow the OP's requests for how they want a thread to develop. If you don't agree with their request, the polite thing to do is either start your own thread (congratulations, you did this) or just bow out. Again, comes down to no one forces you to participate.
3) Regardless of what your intent was, the perception was that you and a couple of others were trying to prevent other people from sharing their opinions by shouting them down. Not saying you were, as I don't believe that was your intent. But that was how you were being perceived. No one likes a cyberbully.
3) And finally. Let's keep some perspective. Much as we all love it, we're talking about a game, a diversion, a pastime. It's not like anybody is asking you to walk right by a brutal murder in the street without calling 911.
You mean, the OP point is valid, but he should wait for a subsequent thread.
I mean, once the "I don't like" are ended, we can start with:
"Psionics: Actual Problems and Common Misconceptions".
Calling it part 1 of a 2 part series would have been a good idea.
Exactly.
Said this, all my simpathy for the OP, because, IMO, in the thread there were both equivalents of:
"I don't like Elves because they have pointy ears"
and
"I don't like Elves because they are grumphy, have long beards and stability as racial feature".
And the latter is indeed frustrating.
Honestly, the premise of that thread was flawed to begin with. Correcting factual errors should always be accepted. The problem is that the thread asked for opinions and correcting factual flaws connected to opinions creates a situation where the person being corrected feels as if their opinion is being attacked.
Even with the best of intentions, it's almost never a good situation.
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[b]I have never seen anyone see anything they care for being treated badly and that person just sit back and do nothing. Why would anyone agree to that?1) I think the whole point is that you have free will and no one is forcing you to read the thread and see the thing you love being criticized. There are lots of threads. If one doesn't appeal to you, don't read it.
2) It is generally polite to try and follow the OP's requests for how they want a thread to develop. If you don't agree with their request, the polite thing to do is either start your own thread (congratulations, you did this) or just bow out. Again, comes down to no one forces you to participate.
3) Regardless of what your intent was, the perception was that you and a couple of others were trying to prevent other people from sharing their opinions by shouting them down. Not saying you were, as I don't believe that was your intent. But that was how you were being perceived. No one likes a cyberbully.
3) And finally. Let's keep some perspective. Much as we all love it, we're talking about a game, a diversion, a pastime. It's not like anybody is asking you to walk right by a brutal murder in the street without calling 911.
GAMING IS SERIOUS BUSINESS!!!
Although I jest, it does totally depend on the person. For some, the enjoyment comes from the numbers crunching. For others, it's the experience. For others, it's just the act of hanging out with people.
I know of one specific person who treats his D&D character as serious business. The good thing was that he was reliable to not mess up the game. The bad thing was that he got violent when he was questioned on his playing style, and god forbid, gaming ability.
Remember, GAMING IS SERIOUS BUSINESS!!!
[b]I have never seen anyone see anything they care for being treated badly and that person just sit back and do nothing. Why would anyone agree to that?1) I think the whole point is that you have free will and no one is forcing you to read the thread and see the thing you love being criticized. There are lots of threads. If one doesn't appeal to you, don't read it.
2) It is generally polite to try and follow the OP's requests for how they want a thread to develop. If you don't agree with their request, the polite thing to do is either start your own thread (congratulations, you did this) or just bow out. Again, comes down to no one forces you to participate.
3) Regardless of what your intent was, the perception was that you and a couple of others were trying to prevent other people from sharing their opinions by shouting them down. Not saying you were, as I don't believe that was your intent. But that was how you were being perceived. No one likes a cyberbully.
4) And finally. Let's keep some perspective. Much as we all love it, we're talking about a game, a diversion, a pastime. It's not like anybody is asking you to walk right by a brutal murder in the street without calling 911.
1. That goes back to sitting back and doing nothing, which is against human nature to do.
2. If is polite, but is also smart to give a people a good reason to not do what they want to do.
3. People perceive what they want to perceive no matter what you do. That fact that we have to have Good Samaritan laws proves this.
4. I would apply the seriousness of the issue to both sides.
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Wraithstrike, I'm really not sure how or why you maintain such a ceaseless belligerence and bellicose refusal to understand in your posts upon this subject.
You have mentioned accuracy but you have repeatedly misrepresented Dabbler's thread and deliberately set out to antagonise people posting in that thread.
It's really quite unpleasant and unbecoming. If psionics is genuinely important to you then how helpful do you think it is to try and create confrontation which reduces the likelihood of anyone changing their perceptions?
In the interests of basic common sense, I plead for you to stop portraying the situation as a dramatic us-vs-them confrontation. It is an absurd caricature of a rich variety of perspectives from a gaming community that is usually incredibly positive, supportive and friendly.
There is no 'anti-psionic crowd'. They don't meet up and discuss how to thwart the spread of d20 psionics, they don't do shady backroom deals with the 'anti-incarnum crowd' and the 'pro-TOB crowd' in order to cut down PF psionics in its infancy.
There are just gamers, fellow human beings who enjoy the same hobby as you but happen to have a rich and interesting variety of tastes, opinions and perspectives.
Honestly, the premise of that thread was flawed to begin with. Correcting factual errors should always be accepted. The problem is that the thread asked for opinions and correcting factual flaws connected to opinions creates a situation where the person being corrected feels as if their opinion is being attacked.
Even with the best of intentions, it's almost never a good situation.
This is the issue that I don't understand. If you say Character X can't do _____ why is that an attack? You just learned something new. I understand people don't like being wrong, myself included, but if you can't take a factual correction then I don't think there is much hope in talking to you anyway.
I understand how criticizing playstyle or what you allow in your game can be personal, because that is like saying you are doing it wrong.
It vaguely amuses me that the so-called 'antipsionic crowd' are apparently all lying liars that lie, while the pro-psionic crowd are all awesome and can do no wrong.
Odds are, since it is apparently not a tiny minority that dislike psionics in D&D, that some of them may have genuine concerns. Others just ride the hyperbole-wave (this is the internet, after all).
To be frank, I don't like the 3e psionics rules, and you can post irrelevant threads till you are blue in the face, it's not going to change my mind.
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People perceive what they want to perceive no matter what you do.
That's patently false. You have a massive ability to influence how others perceive you and your ideas.
If you refuse to take responsibility for that then you simply add an impression of callous disregard.
This is a lovely, generous, friendly community and I really don't want that to be ruined. Please, can we try to preserve the normal, pleasant tone.
and deliberately set out to antagonise people posting in that thread.
How so?
It's really quite unpleasant and unbecoming. If psionics is genuinely important to you then how helpful do you think it is to try and create confrontation which reduces the likelihood of anyone changing their perceptions?
If I state and a fact and you cant accept that you are wrong you wont change anyway. I have stated my definition of what constitutes a fact in this thread and the other one.
In the interests of basic common sense, I plead for you to stop portraying the situation as a dramatic us-vs-them confrontation. It is an absurd caricature of a rich variety of perspectives from a gaming community that is usually incredibly positive, supportive and friendly.
I was actually asking a general question that started from the psionics thread. I did say feel free to replace psionics with monk or fighter or some other thing, but people referenced the other thread in certain things so I responded to it. Should I make a 2nd thread seperate for this for the particular issue with Dabbler's thread while keeping this one general.
There is no 'anti-psionic crowd'. They don't meet up and discuss how to thwart the spread of d20 psionics, they don't do shady backroom deals with the 'anti-incarnum crowd' and the 'pro-TOB crowd' in order to cut down PF psionics in its infancy.
Ok, I had a poor choice of words. I will give you that. I don't think it is a witch hunt. I guess I should say those who don't prefer psionics.
As an aside this board needs to get rid of the time limit for editing stuff.
There are just gamers, fellow human beings who enjoy the same hobby as you but happen to have a rich and interesting variety of tastes, opinions and perspectives.
I value their opinions. If not this thread would not exist.
But, I imagine that if these threads were more sympathetic in tone and appealed to your better angels then you would be more likely to sympathise with Wraithstrike's affection for psioncis.
I can sympathise with Wraith's affection for psionics. I just don't share them. And honestly, I have issues when affections turn into rabidly attacking anyone who disagrees.
As a sidenote, I didn't pose in that other thread, because I find my personal feelings about psionics irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
[b]I have never seen anyone see anything they care for being treated badly and that person just sit back and do nothing. Why would anyone agree to that?1) I think the whole point is that you have free will and no one is forcing you to read the thread and see the thing you love being criticized. There are lots of threads. If one doesn't appeal to you, don't read it.
2) It is generally polite to try and follow the OP's requests for how they want a thread to develop. If you don't agree with their request, the polite thing to do is either start your own thread (congratulations, you did this) or just bow out. Again, comes down to no one forces you to participate.
3) Regardless of what your intent was, the perception was that you and a couple of others were trying to prevent other people from sharing their opinions by shouting them down. Not saying you were, as I don't believe that was your intent. But that was how you were being perceived. No one likes a cyberbully.
4) And finally. Let's keep some perspective. Much as we all love it, we're talking about a game, a diversion, a pastime. It's not like anybody is asking you to walk right by a brutal murder in the street without calling 911.
1. That goes back to sitting back and doing nothing, which is against human nature to do.
2. If is polite, but is also smart to give a people a good reason to not do what they want to do.
3. People perceive what they want to perceive no matter what you do. That fact that we have to have Good Samaritan laws proves this.
4. I would apply the seriousness of the issue to both sides.
Just a couple of reactions:
1. I could certainly argue human nature with you. Many, perhaps most people sit back and do nothing all the time, for good or bad. I think it would be more accurate to say that it is against your nature to do so.2. Dabbler and others gave the reasons they had many times. I guess you just didn't consider those good reasons. Fair enough, but then you're just back to your opinion of their reason, and I think politeness is a good fallback for that situation.
3. Danger here. You can react in two basic ways when you are criticized. A) You can dismiss the criticism as unjustified and keep doing what you are doing. B) You can examine your own actions, trying to look at them from the perspective of others and open to the idea that, intentionally or unintentionally, you may have given offense and might want to consider a course correction. Which way do you believe is the path of wisdom?
4. Good point.
Anyway, I understand and sympathize with your frustration. I think you have a lot to contribute to the discussion, and wish you good gaming with all the psionic goodness your heart desires.
I have never seen anyone see anything they care for being treated badly and that person just sit back and do nothing. Why would anyone agree to that? Recent(within the past few months) information on the subject is available so it is not like anything new is coming out it.
I think you have just described the American Voting Public.
It vaguely amuses me that the so-called 'antipsionic crowd' are apparently all lying liars that lie, while the pro-psionic crowd are all awesome and can do no wrong.
You got a link to prove any of this was said?
People perceive what they want to perceive no matter what you do.That's patently false. You have a massive ability to influence how others perceive you and your ideas.
If you refuse to take responsibility for that then you simply add an impression of callous disregard.
This is a lovely, generous, friendly community and I really don't want that to be ruined. Please, can we try to preserve the normal, pleasant tone.
Some people perceive what they want to perceive......
I do admit my previous post was erroneous.|
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This is the issue that I don't understand. If you say Character X can't do _____ why is that an attack? You just learned something new. I understand people don't like being wrong, myself included, but if you can't take a factual correction then I don't think there is much hope in talking to you anyway.
It's often not what you say that is important, but the manner in which you say it.
The Paizo messageboards are a friendly part of a generally positive community, can we keep it that way, please?For instance, someone posted explaining why they had a problem with psionics, they explained that they probably had a skewed perspective and were genuinely sharing their experience in a non-confrontational manner.
Your response was: "That is not a psionics issue. It is a group issue."
How friendly, just slap the man down and tell him his experience is meaningless. How will that help you to have a positive exchange of ideas?
Another poster put together a slightly disjointed answer to the OP (which you did understand, as you proved later) so you slapped him down with: "Say that again in english or somebody can translate for him."
Do you really think that telling somebody that their language skills are bad in such a blunt, confrontational manner is going to lead to a healthy exchange of ideas? (and I won't go into the irony that you made a couple of simple grammatical errors in the sentence in which you criticised him) This is especially odd as this is the internet and for all you know the poster could have English as their fifth language.
I have never seen anyone see anything they care for being treated badly and that person just sit back and do nothing. Why would anyone agree to that? Recent(within the past few months) information on the subject is available so it is not like anything new is coming out it.I think you have just described the American Voting Public.
:) That would turn this into a political thread. I won't touch that one.
But, I imagine that if these threads were more sympathetic in tone and appealed to your better angels then you would be more likely to sympathise with Wraithstrike's affection for psioncis...rabidly attacking anyone who disagrees.
Please stop with the exaggerations. I have not insulted, at least not intentionally, anyone and I have not called anyone names. The closest I came was using the term "anti-psionics crowd", which I renounced. I think the others(posters) were quiet civil also.
It vaguely amuses me that the so-called 'antipsionic crowd' are apparently all lying liars that lie, while the pro-psionic crowd are all awesome and can do no wrong.
You got a link to prove any of this was said?
I will try to make this short
Background: Dabbler made a thread asking about why psionics are not liked, but he only wanted the antipsionic crowd to participate. What this basically amounts to is opinions and definite untruths being being posted. I have several issues with the idea, but those are in the thread itself.I have never seen anyone see anything they care for being treated badly and that person just sit back and do nothing. Why would anyone agree to that? Recent(within the past few months) information on the subject is available so it is not like anything new is coming out it. You can take the word psionics out use monks, fighters, or whatever you care about.
The bolded areas are where the focus should be. That makes it a general topic and not about psionics.
PS: I only used monks and fighters because they get picked on a lot.
I think somebody is way too emotionally attached to their game. It's also misguided to believe that someone's opinion about something is directly related to their knowledge of it.
If people want psionics to continue and prosper, they should be encouraging others to speak up on what they don't like about it. There's never been a set of rules which couldn't stand a little improvement.
Bottom line, chill out Wraithstrike. It's a game.
Once again this was supposed to be a general discussion not based on psionics. I just made the mistake of responding to the ones that pertained to the psionics thread.
No more questions pertaining to the psionics thread will be acknowledged.
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I think you have just described the American Voting Public.
Just to avoid this thread exploding like previous threads have done after a throwaway comment about America, I will point out that you could probably say that about any voting public from any country.
So, we cool? Or do I need to put my tin hat on and make a run for the bunker?
It vaguely amuses me that the so-called 'antipsionic crowd' are apparently all lying liars that lie, while the pro-psionic crowd are all awesome and can do no wrong.
You got a link to prove any of this was said?
You sent me to an entire thread, not a post so I have no idea who insulted who. In any event a new thread is coming up. Stand by.
I think you have just described the American Voting Public.Just to avoid this thread exploding like previous threads have done after a throwaway comment about America, I will point out that you could probably say that about any voting public from any country.
So, we cool? Or do I need to put my tin hat on and make a run for the bunker?
Best make a run for it. :(
You sent me to an entire thread, not a post so I have no idea who insulted who. In any event a new thread is coming up. Stand by.It vaguely amuses me that the so-called 'antipsionic crowd' are apparently all lying liars that lie, while the pro-psionic crowd are all awesome and can do no wrong.
You got a link to prove any of this was said?
3. Danger here. You can react in two basic ways when you are criticized. A) You can dismiss the criticism as unjustified and keep doing what you are doing. B) You can examine your own actions, trying to look at them from the perspective of others and open to the idea that, intentionally or unintentionally, you may have given offense and might want to consider a course correction. Which way do you believe is the path of wisdom?link to my reply
Your response was: "That is not a psionics issue. It is a group issue."
How friendly, just slap the man down and tell him his experience is meaningless. How will that help you to have a positive exchange of ideas?
I see your point. I was not saying his experience did not matter. I think the issue with that example and in honestly probably a few others, is that I don't take things as personal others and I speak to others like I would want to be spoken to. I would have asked how it was a psionics issue if I did not understand it. If I am finking up I want to know it. Don't nice it up with flowerly words. I will try to use more flowerly words from now on.
Another poster put together a slightly disjointed answer to the OP (which you did understand, as you proved later) so you slapped him down with: "Say that again in english or somebody can translate for him."
Actually I did not understand at first. I had to reread it several times, even after I responded I was not sure I had guessed correctly.
Your response was: "That is not a psionics issue. It is a group issue."
How friendly, just slap the man down and tell him his experience is meaningless. How will that help you to have a positive exchange of ideas?
I see your point. I was not saying his experience did not matter. I think the issue with that example and in honestly probably a few others, is that I don't take things as personal others and I speak to others like I would want to be spoken to. I would have asked how it was a psionics issue if I did not understand it. If I am finking up I want to know it. Don't nice it up with flowerly words. I will try to use more flowerly words from now on.
I think that was actually the kind of thing I was looking for you guys to stop doing.
The key part for me was that as much as a third of the people out there still think psionics works like it did in 2nd edition. So how do we change that view, I really don't know.
GAMING IS SERIOUS BUSINESS!!!
Although I jest, it does totally depend on the person. For some, the enjoyment comes from the numbers crunching. For others, it's the experience. For others, it's just the act of hanging out with people.
I know of one specific person who treats his D&D character as serious business. The good thing was that he was reliable to not mess up the game. The bad thing was that he got violent when he was questioned on his playing style, and god forbid, gaming ability.
Remember, GAMING IS SERIOUS BUSINESS!!!
Don't get me wrong. I love me some gaming. I've been doing it pretty steady for more than 30, as other hobbies/pastimes have come and gone (golf, fishing, hunting, running, boxing, softball, basketball, poker, computer games, etc.). Just ask my wife how cranky I get if our weekly game session gets cancelled.
That said, there are a lot more important things in life in general and my life in particular than arguing about one's gaming preferences, and I dare say there should be for everyone Simply not worth getting your panties in a bunch over.
#4 Overbearing smack-you-in-the-face psionics enthusiasts who can't keep their mouth shut even to help their own cause. Just a personal turnoff. Much along the lines of the min-maxers who swear I am not playing the game right at great length and volume.That's the latest reason added to my list, too.I was gone until now. Would Tom mind telling me how it helps anyone to keep their mouth shut?
example:
ToZ(because he is a good sport) you are a liar and a cheater. You also instigates arguments, and break up friendships. ToZ you can not respond to this in any way, no matter if it is true or not. Trust me, I am helping you.
WS, try this scenario --
Imagine you were walking on the street and overheard two people discussing -- oh, a political question. The first solicits the other for his opinion. The second replies with an opinion which differs from yours. Do you jump into their discussion? If you do and are then politely asked to leave, would you continue to intrude?
You're a bright guy. I'm sure you can think of other scenarios when remaining silent is the better option.
#4 Overbearing smack-you-in-the-face psionics enthusiasts who can't keep their mouth shut even to help their own cause. Just a personal turnoff. Much along the lines of the min-maxers who swear I am not playing the game right at great length and volume.That's the latest reason added to my list, too.I was gone until now. Would Tom mind telling me how it helps anyone to keep their mouth shut?
example:
ToZ(because he is a good sport) you are a liar and a cheater. You also instigates arguments, and break up friendships. ToZ you can not respond to this in any way, no matter if it is true or not. Trust me, I am helping you.WS, try this scenario --
Imagine you were walking on the street and overheard two people discussing -- oh, a political question. The first solicits the other for his opinion. The second replies with an opinion which differs from yours. Do you jump into their discussion? If you do and are then politely asked to leave, would you continue to intrude?
You're a bright guy. I'm sure you can think of other scenarios when remaining silent is the better option.
A conversation between two people and one that can incorrectly influence others because it is being broadcast are not in the same category. There are no private conversations on the boards. I am not saying there should not be, which is why I want a PM function, but that is another subject.