To be honest I really love the bloodline abilities, and if you look at a lot of them, it's as if they want you to be on the front lines (Claws? Seriously?). In my mind I always felt that Sorcerers should be more combat oriented than Wizards They are the wild ones compared to the book reading wizards who spend their days learning and preparing spells. But the way it is now, even bards outshine them in BAB and bards spend their time learning to perform. Anyway, I don't really want this to be a Dragon Disciple prestige class, just just an attempt to make a more martial oriented sorcerer.
Here are some ideas for it, it's not finished, but I'd still like any sort of constructive criticism.
Bloodline Warrior Prestige Class
HD 8
Full BAB
Every level is added applied to your sorcerer abilities
6 + int Skill points
( The penalty is you lose out on spell caster levels )
Combat Feat on first level
Prerequisites
Bloodline Feature
5 ranks in Knowledge Arcana
I know you said you weren't done with it, but this looks pretty much not worth while. For a frontline character, you'd almost be better cross-classing into Fighter or Ranger or some-such. I think the first thing you need to do is stop and consider if you want this to be a prestige class at all, or if you think you should make it into a full 20 level class. If you're terrbily set on a front-line fighter type, the Super Genius Guide: Vanguard might catch your eye, and it's only $3. Other than that, I would need to see more before I could say more that would be worth while.
The problem with multi-classing is that I want the abilities of the bloodlines, but I want to apply them in a more combat oriented way. The only way I can see this happening is by making gish character.
I must say, as a DM and a player, gish takes the fun out of a campaign. I think if you could offer some more up here, you might get a better response as to what exactly the class should be like.
I must say, as a DM and a player, gish takes the fun out of a campaign. I think if you could offer some more up here, you might get a better response as to what exactly the class should be like.
If your not going to be productive in actually helping him in his concept please take your "gish" hate else-where. Sorry you had a bad experiences with some power games, try playing a 3.5 hexblade that is really game breaking.... (That is how I got this name!) Not everyone agrees with you, and obviously he does not.
Anyway. I really like the idea of some blood line effects for a fighter type. To keep balanced with the fighter they definably should not qualify for fighter feats for starters.
I must say, as a DM and a player, gish takes the fun out of a campaign. I think if you could offer some more up here, you might get a better response as to what exactly the class should be like.If your not going to be productive in actually helping him in his concept please take your "gish" hate else-where. Sorry you had a bad experiences with some power games, try playing a 3.5 hexblade that is really game breaking.... (That is how I got this name!) Not everyone agrees with you, and obviously he does not.
Anyway. I really like the idea of some blood line effects for a fighter type. To keep balanced with the fighter they definably should not qualify for fighter feats for starters.
Wow man, way to rant over nothing. Good job making things up to be self-righteous over.
Wow man, way to rant over nothing. Good job making things up to be self-righteous over.I must say, as a DM and a player, gish takes the fun out of a campaign. I think if you could offer some more up here, you might get a better response as to what exactly the class should be like.If your not going to be productive in actually helping him in his concept please take your "gish" hate else-where. Sorry you had a bad experiences with some power games, try playing a 3.5 hexblade that is really game breaking.... (That is how I got this name!) Not everyone agrees with you, and obviously he does not.
Anyway. I really like the idea of some blood line effects for a fighter type. To keep balanced with the fighter they definably should not qualify for fighter feats for starters.
So, you come into a gish class thread and say "gish takes the fun out of a campaign." I assume to are talking about it being overpowered, perhaps that was wrong. If I was not, look at the hexblade, it is a perfect example of a gish class being underpowered.
Still you are in a gish thread talking down about them. The least you could do is support your statement as to why "gish takes the fun out of a campaign." He didn't provide any target to hit other than it was basically a gish so you went on that, and asked for a bigger target.
I am not a fan of Gish but I do like the concept you aiming for but I don't think this would really work as a prestige class if you want to focus on the Bloodline powers.
How about instead of making this a prestige class you just make it a full core class. For balance, model it after the Paladin or the Ranger where they don't start to get their spell casting to a couple of levels later and limit the top spell level they can cast but they gain a full BAB and the Bloodline powers right from the get go. You could also have abilities that allow the Bloodline warrior to specialize in his Bloodline Powers so that he gets extra uses of his powers each day. The rest of the abilities gained could be either bonus feats or abilities that enhance the blood line powers he currently have.
Hexen, did you read this thread? It is not a gish thread, it is about the ideas for a prestige class. Trying reading before you type, not hating before you think. Ito, good idea with the Ranger/Paladin base, I think that'd go a long way towards what you're looking for. If not that, than maybe a bard with a bloodline but without his perform things?
Ion Raven; HERE this might be something like what you are looking for. It is 3.5, but it is probably still balanced. I personally would give them good fort and will saves, but that is up to the GM.
Thanks Captain :3 The Battle Sorcerer is a variant that works well with Pathfinder's class.
I have to say that I really like this idea (conceptually). I find the Fighter/ Sorcerer/ Dragon Disciple combo can be very effective (depending upon what you’re looking for). I wonder why none of the other bloodlines get this type of treatment? I have been attempting to rework the prestige class to fit a more broad bloodline concept. Such as an Elemental Disciple or Celestial Disciple. So far the work is in the early stages of development but I hope to have something completed soon... Thoughts?
While I haven't done it yet, I've been looking at the possibility of building a Gish class, based on the Inquisitor. Since Inquisitor gains spells at 1st level, and going up to 6th level, so it starts earlier and goes further in spell level than Ranger or Paladin.
I think its strange that: Ranger, Paladin, and Inquisitor the martial casters are all divinely based and not arcane. There is no current arcane martial gish, only divine/martial and three of them to boot. Why so many of one, and none of the other.
Its sad that one has to multi-class to try and get that martial/arcane mix, it should be done as a single class.
And since the arrival of the APG, I just as soon see prestige classes go the way of 3.5 - gone in other words.
GP
Ohh I like the idea of remaking the Dragon Disciple as some sort of Bloodline Disciple. You would lose some caster levels but gain increased bloodline powers, eventually becoming something more than human depending on your bloodline, i.e. gaining a template such as fiendish or half-dragon. Hey Bryan, are you working on that still?
Yeah I kinda ran with that idea a little while ago and cam up with my version of the Hexblade, which I called the Warlock because of it's martial nature. It's spell advancement is like a paladins or rangers. Anyway maybe it'll give you an idea or two;
Warlock
Alignment: Any
Hit die: d8
BAB: Mod
Good Saves: Fort and Will
Special Abilities:
1st Level: Bloodline, Curse 1/day
2nd Level: Arcane Resistance, Cantrips
3rd Level: Stalwart
4th Level: Arcane Bond, Spells
5th Level: Bonus feat, Curse 2/day
6th Level: Battlecaster
7th Level: Greater Curse
8th Level: Bonus spell
9th Level: Curse 3/day
10th Level: Bonus feat
11th Level: Bonus spell
12th Level: Baleful aura 1/day
13th Level: Curse 4/day
14th Level: Bonus spell
15th Level: Bonus feat
16th Level: Baleful aura 2/day
17th Level: Curse 5/day
18th Level:
19th Level: Dire curse
20th Level: Deadly aura, bonus feat
Class Skills
The warlock's class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Fly (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Ranks per Level: 4 +Int modifier
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the warlock
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Warlocks are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with light armor and shields but not with tower shields.
Because their insinctive combination of magic and martial ability, a Warlock can cast Warlock spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. However, like any other arcane spellcaster, a Warlock wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component (and most do). A multi-class Warlock still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells derived from the other classes.
Bloodline: Each warlock has a source of magic somewhere in her heritage that grants her spells, bonus feats, an additional class skill, and other special abilities. This source can represent a blood relation or an extreme event involving a creature somewhere in the family's past. For example, a warlock might have a dragon as a distant relative or her grandfather might have signed a terrible contract with a devil. Regardless of the source, this influence manifests in a number of ways as the warlock gains levels. A warlock must pick one bloodline upon taking her first level of warlock. Once made, this choice cannot be changed. Warlock bloodlines are the same as sorcerer bloodlines with the exception that bonus spells only can go up to 3rd level.
At 8th, 11th and 14th level, a warlock learns an additional spell, derived from her bloodline. These spells are in addition to the number of spells given on Table 2: Warlock Spells Known. These spells cannot be exchanged for different spells at higher levels.
At 5th level, and every five levels thereafter, a warlock receives one bonus feat, chosen from a list specific to each bloodline. The warlock must meet the prerequisites for these bonus feats.
Curse (Su): Once per day, as a standard action, a warlock can unleash a curse upon a foe. The target must be visible to the warlock and within 60 feet. The target of a warlock's curse takes a -2 penalty on attacks, saves, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls for 1 hour thereafter. A successful Will save (DC 15 + 1/2 warlock's class level + Warlock's Cha modifier) negates the effect.
Every four levels after first (5, 9, 13, 17) a warlock gains the ability to use his curse one additional time per day. Multiple warlock curses don't stack, and any foe that successfully resists the effect cannot be affected again by the same warlock's curse for 24 hours.
Any effect that removes or dispels a curse eliminates the effect of a warlock's curse.
Cantrips: At 2nd level a warlock learns a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, as noted on Table 2: Warlock Spells Known under “Spells Known.” These spells are cast like any other spell, but they do not consume any slots and may be used again. A warlocks caster level is equal to one half his warlock level.
Arcane Resistance (Su): At 2nd level, a warlock gains a bonus equal to his Charisma bonus (minimum +1) on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects.
Stalwart (Ex): At 3rd level and higher, a warlock can resist magical and unusual attacks with great willpower or fortitude. If he makes a successful Will or Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Will half or Fortitude partial), he instead completely negates the effect. An unconscious or sleeping warlock does not gain the benefit of stalwart.
Arcane Bond (Ex or Sp): At 4th level, warlocks form a powerful bond with an object or a creature. This bond can take one of two forms: a familiar or a bonded object. A familiar is a magical pet that enhances the warlock's skills and senses and can aid him in magic, while a bonded object is an item a warlock can use to cast additional spells or to serve as a magical item. Once a warlock makes this choice, it is permanent and cannot be changed. Rules for bonded items are given below, while rules for familiars are at the end of this section.
Warlocks who select a bonded object must choose an item already in their possession. Objects that are the subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon. These objects are always masterwork quality. If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be wielded. If a warlock attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell's level. If the object is a ring or amulet, it occupies the ring or neck slot accordingly.
A bonded object can be used once per day to cast any one spell that the warlock has in his spellbook and is capable of casting, even if the spell is not prepared. This spell is treated like any other spell cast by the warlock, including casting time, duration, and other effects dependent on the warlock's level. This spell cannot be modified by metamagic feats or other abilities. The bonded object cannot be used to cast spells from the warlock's opposition schools (see arcane school).
A warlock can add additional magic abilities to his bonded object as if he has the required Item Creation Feats and if he meets the level prerequisites of the feat. For example, a warlock with a bonded dagger must be at least 5th level to add magic abilities to the dagger (see the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat in Feats). If the bonded object is a wand, it loses its wand abilities when its last charge is consumed, but it is not destroyed and it retains all of its bonded object properties and can be used to craft a new wand. The magic properties of a bonded object, including any magic abilities added to the object, only function for the warlock who owns it. If a bonded object's owner dies, or the item is replaced, the object reverts to being an ordinary masterwork item of the appropriate type.
If a bonded object is damaged, it is restored to full hit points the next time the warlock prepares his spells. If the object of an arcane bond is lost or destroyed, it can be replaced after 1 week in a special ritual that costs 200 gp per warlock level plus the cost of the masterwork item. This ritual takes 8 hours to complete. Items replaced in this way do not possess any of the additional enchantments of the previous bonded item. A warlock can designate an existing magic item as his bonded item. This functions in the same way as replacing a lost or destroyed item except that the new magic item retains its abilities while gaining the benefits and drawbacks of becoming a bonded item.
Spells: Beginning at 4th level, a Warlock gains the ability to cast a small number of arcane spells which are drawn from the Warlock spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time, just as a sorcerer can. To learn or cast a spell, a Warlock must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level (Cha 11 for 1st-level spells, Cha 12 for 2nd-level spells, and so forth). The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Warlock's spell is 10 + the spell level + the Warlock's charisma modifier. Like other spellcasters, a Warlock can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on the below table. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high enough Charisma score. When the below table indicates that the Warlock gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level (for instance, 1st-level spells for a 4th-level Warlock), he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Charisma score for that spell level.
The Warlock's selection of spells is extremely limited. A Warlock begins play knowing no spells, but gains one or more new spells at certain levels, as indicated on the second table. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a Warlock knows is not affected by his Charisma score. The numbers on the second table are fixed.)
Battlecaster: Beginning at 6th level a warlock gains a bonus on concentration checks made to cast defensively equal to his warlock level. In addition, when the warlock uses the full attack action to make multiple attacks he may substitute the casting of a spell known that has a casting time of no greater than 1 standard action for one of the attacks. The concentration check to cast defensively is made as part of the action of casting the spell.
Greater Curse (Su): When a warlock attains 4th level, the penalty on attacks, saves, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls incurred by a target of the warlock's curse becomes -4 instead of -2.
Baleful Aura (Su): Once per day, a warlock of 12th level or higher can create a baleful aura of misfortune. Any melee or ranged attack made against the warlock while this baleful aura is active has a 20% miss chance (similar to the effect of concealment). In addition an enemy within 30 feet of the must make a fortitude saving throw (DC equals 10 + one half the warlocks level + the warlocks CHA modifier) or gain the staggered condition. Activating the aura is a free action, and the aura lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the warlock's Charisma bonus (if any). At 16th level and higher, a warlock can use his baleful aura twice per day. A 20th-level warlock can activate this aura three times per day.
Dire Curse (Su): When a warlock attains 19th level, the penalty on attacks, saves, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls incurred by a target of the warlock's curse becomes -6 instead of -4.
Deadly Aura (Su): Whenever a warlock of 20th level or greater activates her baleful aura all enemies within 30 feet take bleed damage equal to twice the warlock's CHA modifier each round they are within the aura. In addition, the miss chance for melee or ranged attacks increases to 50% and creatures who fail their saving throw gain the nauseated condition instead of the staggered condition.
Table 2: Warlock Spells Known
Spells Known
Level 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th
1 4
2 5
3 5
4 6 2
5 6 2
6 6 3 2
7 6 3 2
8 6 3 3
9 6 4 3 2
10 6 4 3 2
11 6 4 4 3
12 6 4 4 3 2
13 6 5 4 3 2
14 6 5 4 4 3
15 6 5 5 4 3
16 6 5 5 4 3
17 6 6 5 4 4
18 6 6 5 5 4
19 6 6 6 5 4
20 6 6 6 5 5
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Ohh I like the idea of remaking the Dragon Disciple as some sort of Bloodline Disciple. You would lose some caster levels but gain increased bloodline powers, eventually becoming something more than human depending on your bloodline, i.e. gaining a template such as fiendish or half-dragon. Hey Bryan, are you working on that still?
Yes. Sorry, I got kind of sidetracked. This is still a work in progress but I do have one bloodline based upon the Boreal (APG) type to preview. Comments and suggestions welcome.
Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special Spells per Day
1st +0 +1 +0 +1 Blood of frost, natural armor increase (+1) —
2nd +1 +1 +1 +1 Ability boost (Con +2), bloodline feat, cold blast +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
3rd +2 +2 +1 +2 Snow shroud +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
4th +3 +2 +1 +2 Ability boost (Con +2), natural armor increase (+1) +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
5th +3 +3 +2 +3 Freezing spells, bloodline feat —
6th +4 +3 +2 +3 Ability boost (Str +2) +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
7th +5 +4 +2 +4 Form of ice DR 5/-, natural armor increase (+1) +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
8th +6 +4 +3 +4 Ability boost (Wis +2), bloodline feat +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
9th +6 +5 +3 +5 Blizzard —
10th +7 +5 +3 +5 Body of ice DR 10/-, child of ancient winters +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
Descended from inhabitants of the lands of ice and snow, you count among your ancestors giant-kin, troll-born, and frost-rimed spirits. Their savage and raw energies flow down through generations to infuse you to the marrow with the chill of the polar wind, crackling auroras, and the long winter’s night.
At the indicated levels, a boreal devotee gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain other benefits a character of that class would have gained, except for additional spells per day, spells known (if he is a spontaneous spellcaster), and an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class before becoming a boreal devotee, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.
A boreal devotee adds his level to his sorcerer levels when determining the powers gained from his bloodline. If the boreal devotee does not have levels of sorcerer, he instead gains bloodline powers of the boreal bloodline, using his boreal devotee level as his sorcerer level to determine the bonuses gained. This ability does not grant bonus spells to a sorcerer unless he possesses spell slots of an appropriate level. Such bonus spells are automatically granted if the sorcerer gains spell slots of the spell's level.
As his skin thickens, a boreal devotee takes on more and more of his progenitor's physical aspect. At 1st, 4th, and 7th level, a boreal devotee gains an increase to the character's existing natural armor (if any), as indicated on Table: Boreal Devotee. These armor bonuses stack.
As a boreal devotee gains levels in this prestige class, his ability scores increase as noted on Table: Boreal Devotee. These increases stack and are gained as if through level advancement.
Upon reaching 2nd level, and every three levels thereafter, a boreal devotee receives one bonus feat, chosen from the boreal bloodline's bonus feat list.
At 2nd level, the boreal devotee gains a cold blast attack. As a standard action, the boreal devotee can unleash a blast of freezing cold. This blast deals 1d6 points of cold damage + 1 point for every two boreal devotee levels you possess to all creatures within 5 feet of you and staggers them for 1 round. A successful Reflex save negates the staggered effect and halves the damage. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 your sorcerer level + your Charisma modifier. Upon reaching 6th level, this attack deals an additional 1d6 points of cold damage. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier. This ability replaces the boreal bloodline’s cold steel ability.
At 3rd level, a boreal devotee gains the snow shroud bloodline power, even if his level does not yet grant that power. Once his level is high enough to grant this ability through the bloodline, the boreal devotee gains an additional use of this ability each day.
At 5th level, the boreal devotee gains the freezing spells ability. Whenever a creature fails a saving throw and takes cold damage from one of your spells, it is slowed (as the slow spell) for 1 round. Spells that do not allow a save do not slow creatures. At 10th level, the duration increases to 1d4 rounds.
At 7th level, a boreal devotee can transmute his body and equipment to ice for a period of time. It takes a standard action to take on the form of ice, and you can end the transmutation with a free action on your turn. When you take on the form of ice, you are immune to cold and have DR 5/—, but you take twice the normal amount of damage from fire. At 10th level, this improves to DR 10/—. You can take on the form of ice for a number of rounds per day equal to your boreal devotee levels. The rounds need not be consecutive.
At 9th level, a boreal devotee gains the blizzard bloodline power, even if his level does not yet grant that power.
At 10th level, your boreal heritage becomes manifest. You gain the cold subtype and you become immune to fatigue and exhaustion. In addition, you gain immunity to sneak attacks and critical hits. This power causes you to gain vulnerability to fire.