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I could use some help from people who have played SAGA edition of Star Wars. I recently got a bunch of the books given to me and now I want to run a campaign. However, despite watching the films and playing the KOTOR games, I still feel a little overwhelmed running a campaign from it.
So does anyone know any good places to go and learn more about running a game or even an adventure path that exists?
Also, any advice as to what i should expect? Like certain classes/skills/talents/ whatever I should watch out for?
I've been running SAGA for a while now. I have two groups of players, the primary of which plays in the Kotor Era, or more specifically in the era being portrayed in the Old Republic MMO - 300 years after Kotor II.
If you want to run an adventure path I would recommend Dawn of Defiance, this is what my second group plays. It's free to download, and set in the Dark Times between the two trilogies during the rise of the Empire. I won't spoiler anything here, but it goes from level one to level twenty and is quite good. I believe there is a PbP group doing it on these forums.
Otherwise, the great thing about SAGA is how different characters of the same class can be, there is huge flexibility. If you search the official forum you'll find a pair of excel documents summarising and compiling everything from the books, which is great when you need to compare feats, talents, etc. It's saved me a huge amount of time.
Also, be aware that ten force users are using a skill check to attack defences, this has been the biggest point of debate in the SAGA system. From levels one to ten they have the advantage, and from eleven to twenty defences pull ahead, many DMs balance this with their own variants. My group uses our own we're comfortable with.
Also, be aware that unlike DnD prestige classes are the norm rather than the exception. The system heavily encourages it, and most characters will enter the class that suits their character at level eight. For example, most Jedi will take the Jedi Knight prestige class then, and then the Jedi Master class at level 12. Comparatively a pilot style scoundrel or scout may take the Ace Pilot class, there are plenty to suite a wide variety of characters.
This post is getting long, so I'll put it up now and try and think of more. If you have any questions feel free to ask.
EDIT - Also, in the books there is no starting wealth past first level. Here is a link to a player built table to use: http://community.wizards.com/robshanti/blog/2009/12/29/starting_credits_abo ve_1st_level
To go along with that, with a lack of magic items among other things, credits really aren't a big worry in many Star Wars games, unless the DM builds it so that the players have to skimp and save. Most Nobles will take the Wealth talent early, which gives them a large boost of cash every time they level, the table I've linked here actually gives a separate one for Nobles with the wealth talent - it's about double normal cash. Equipment availability is usually a bigger limiting factor than whether you have enough money to buy that blaster rifle. Of course when dealing with buying ships you're talking a whole nother league. My players sink most of their money into their ship.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
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There was a free adventure path published online by WotC. It's called Dawn of Defiance, set during the Dark Times, and it's a pretty good adventure to cut your teeth on if you're not feeling up to running a campaign of your own yet. I've been part of a group playing through the first adventure and it's been a blast! You read the PbP here.
As for the files for Dawn of Defiance... I don't know where they're hosted online since WotC gave up the license. However, I have them, they're PDFs and if you'd like me to email them to you. There are 10 episodes, which include maps and all the stats you should need. My email is anthro78 at gmail dot com.
James
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I've been running SAGA for a while now. I have two groups of players, the primary of which plays in the Kotor Era, or more specifically in the era being portrayed in the Old Republic MMO - 300 years after Kotor II.
If you want to run an adventure path I would recommend Dawn of Defiance, this is what my second group plays. It's free to download, and set in the Dark Times between the two trilogies during the rise of the Empire. I won't spoiler anything here, but it goes from level one to level twenty and is quite good. I believe there is a PbP group doing it on these forums.
Otherwise, the great thing about SAGA is how different characters of the same class can be, there is huge flexibility. If you search the official forum you'll find a pair of excel documents summarising and compiling everything from the books, which is great when you need to compare feats, talents, etc. It's saved me a huge amount of time.
Also, be aware that ten force users are using a skill check to attack defences, this has been the biggest point of debate in the SAGA system. From levels one to ten they have the advantage, and from eleven to twenty defences pull ahead, many DMs balance this with their own variants. My group uses our own we're comfortable with.
Also, be aware that unlike DnD prestige classes are the norm rather than the exception. The system heavily encourages it, and most characters will enter the class that suits their character at level eight. For example, most Jedi will take the Jedi Knight prestige class then, and then the Jedi Master class at level 12. Comparatively a pilot style scoundrel or scout may take the Ace Pilot class, there are plenty to suite a wide variety of characters.
This post is getting long, so I'll put it up now and try and think of more. If you have any questions feel free to ask.
EDIT - Also, in the books there is no starting wealth past first level. Here is a link to a player built table to use: http://community.wizards.com/robshanti/blog/2009/12/29/starting_credits_abo ve_1st_level...
Actually thats the era we'd like to play in too. We're all pretty excited about the MMO coming out and most of us have played the KOTOR games. It seems a much more free era to play around in while the more recent one with the movies seems pretty covered as it stands.
Any advice you could give about if you've had any issues running a game in that era?
Watch through the history videos on the website in depth, and read the little comic they've made. It gives you some nice background events to play with. Also, get a good galaxy map (there's a fantastic pdf one you can download) and take a good look at where the Sith/Republic split is on the map shown in the history videos. The ability to have clearly defined territory can make for some good RP when it comes to the difference in atmosphere of planets on different sides, it also gives player the opportunity to have to sneak across the divide and so on.
Obviously the Old Republic source book is invaluable, but be very careful about allowing the energy shields detailed in there. They have the potential to break the game, making certain players who managed to get one pretty much immune to normal blaster fire until they wear it out. Fortunately the things are VERY expensive, just make them hard to get hold of too.
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Watch through the history videos on the website in depth, and read the little comic they've made. It gives you some nice background events to play with. Also, get a good galaxy map (there's a fantastic pdf one you can download) and take a good look at where the Sith/Republic split is on the map shown in the history videos. The ability to have clearly defined territory can make for some good RP when it comes to the difference in atmosphere of planets on different sides, it also gives player the opportunity to have to sneak across the divide and so on.
Obviously the Old Republic source book is invaluable, but be very careful about allowing the energy shields detailed in there. They have the potential to break the game, making certain players who managed to get one pretty much immune to normal blaster fire until they wear it out. Fortunately the things are VERY expensive, just make them hard to get hold of too.
Thank you sir. You've been a great help for this newbie ^_^
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I could use some help from people who have played SAGA edition of Star Wars. I recently got a bunch of the books given to me and now I want to run a campaign. However, despite watching the films and playing the KOTOR games, I still feel a little overwhelmed running a campaign from it.
Do you have the KOTOR sourcebook? If so, those things go for a fair bit of money on the second hand market, so whoever gave it to you was being very generous.
I have never run a SAGA game (although I'd like to) but I've found the Star Wars messageboards on the WotC site to be very helpful for rules queries and much friendlier than certain other of the WotC messageboards.
The only slight irritation I found was that they were also quick to give unsolicited opinions on the plot ideas I included as background to my rules queries. As a result, I imagine they'd be only to happy to give plot advice if it was actually asked for :)
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Another resource...if you have the time, is the Order 66 podcast. Their earlier podcasts go through each of the base classes, and how to build a good one, what is broken etc. They are quite rules heavy, if you are interested in such things. I have an hour and a half commute each way to work so have a lot of free time to listen to such things :)
For a good map, there is one for $1 here at Paizo in the bit and pieces sale. I grabbed one and have found it good, not perfect, but it is only $1.
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I could use some help from people who have played SAGA edition of Star Wars. I recently got a bunch of the books given to me and now I want to run a campaign. However, despite watching the films and playing the KOTOR games, I still feel a little overwhelmed running a campaign from it.Do you have the KOTOR sourcebook? If so, those things go for a fair bit of money on the second hand market, so whoever gave it to you was being very generous.
I have never run a SAGA game (although I'd like to) but I've found the Star Wars messageboards on the WotC site to be very helpful for rules queries and much friendlier than certain other of the WotC messageboards.
The only slight irritation I found was that they were also quick to give unsolicited opinions on the plot ideas I included as background to my rules queries. As a result, I imagine they'd be only to happy to give plot advice if it was actually asked for :)
Thanks for the advice. I've always been a little offput by the WotC boards as I used to do them for D&D but found them to be ... harsh. Thats why I asked here since I felt more comfortable in Paizo land ^_^
And yes, I have the KOTOR source book along with ... I think all of them? Spaceship one, legacy one, core, Kotor, Unleashed, and a few others I don't recall off hand. Ah well.
The person was quite generous but also not exactly one who hurts for money so have what will. I'm aware of the 150 dollar plus sell rate but I think he knew I had no intention of selling it. It would seem an insult of a gift ^_^
There are fourteen total.
Watch through the history videos on the website in depth, and read the little comic they've made. It gives you some nice background events to play with. Also, get a good galaxy map (there's a fantastic pdf one you can download) and take a good look at where the Sith/Republic split is on the map shown in the history videos. The ability to have clearly defined territory can make for some good RP when it comes to the difference in atmosphere of planets on different sides, it also gives player the opportunity to have to sneak across the divide and so on.
where could one download this galaxy map?
http://www.xs4all.nl/~wrvh/galaxymap/
Here. :)
I am one of the players in the previously mentioned Dawn of Defiance PbP thread on this board. Our GM, Kalderaan, is doing an awesome job with keeping the swashbuckling flavor strong in it and runs a well paced game. Maybe it would be worth a read for you to see how the game runs.
Now that the Saga Edition boards are down at the WotC site, you may want to try the d20 Radio Saga Edition forums. The aformentioned Order 66 podcast is produced by the fine folks at d20 Radio and they have a great community willing to help anyone in need of Saga Edition assistance.
Also, any advice as to what i should expect? Like certain classes/skills/talents/ whatever I should watch out for?
Be very careful about allowing the "add on" systems, like the rank system in Galaxy at War or the followers from the Clone Wars book. I'm not saying that any one of them is a problem, but for the most part they tend to work in the context of that book, but maybe not when added to other Campaign Guides or rulebooks.
The "add ons" are also where you run into a few of the rules that seem to be a bit ill defined, such as the benefits of rank in Galaxy at War (what does it mean to get the use of a droid "once per encounter?" for example).
Also, Destiny Points are cool, but players often hoard them for the "BBEG firing squad," which can be a bit frustrating when you want a big fight to have any tension at all. I started to house rule that Destiny points could either auto hit or auto crit, not both at one time.
EDIT - Also, in the books there is no starting wealth past first level. Here is a link to a player built table to use: http://community.wizards.com/robshanti/blog/2009/12/29/starting_credits_abo ve_1st_level...
Ah, yeah, that reminds me of something that came up in my KOTOR group. I'm not 100% certain that Saga really should have a wealth by level expectation. I tried really hard to keep up with the "credits per encounter" suggestion in the core rulebook, and as more books came out with more equipment, it did become a bit problematic.
The first few books didn't have much that wealth could throw out of whack except for starships, but the later books had more and more stuff that actually started to alter the game by handing out bigger bonuses to skills, portable versions of things that PCs normally couldn't take with them, etc.
The thing to remember is that there is no magical equipment. Most classes won't even use armor, so once they've bought their main weapon and whatever gear they want/need, they're somewhat set. Starships are typically so expensive that the only way to get them is through plot reasons or DM Fiat (And really, every group should either start with or quickly gain a starship, it's one of the prime tropes and focuses of the setting).
Unless a character takes the feats that let them upgrade items, credits are more useful as bribes or storyline macguffins.
Now that the Saga Edition boards are down at the WotC site, you may want to try the d20 Radio Saga Edition forums. The aformentioned Order 66 podcast is produced by the fine folks at d20 Radio and they have a great community willing to help anyone in need of Saga Edition assistance.
The Saga Edition boards are still there.
Something to remember about being a GM for a Star Wars campaign is that the letter of the day should always be foolishly stupid heroics. The movies are huge and cinematic, but almost every scene has something foolishly heroic that takes place in it. The heroes may be suave, charming, and debonair, but that is second to the opportunity for them to swing across chasms on pencil-thin insta-ropes or storm down a hallway screaming at the tops of their lungs and frightening a battle-hardened squad of Stormtroopers.
If your players aren't willing to take a risk to get their epic heroics on, then they just aren't in the right mindset for a Star Wars game.
Part of the way that I enable this for my PC's is by providing multiple ways out of situations and encounters - there are usually a combat, a diplomatic, and an environmental method to get out of an encounter. Pinned down by battle droids in a cargo hold on the space station, will they choose to shoot their way out? Will they try to hack the droids or otherwise convince them that the heroes are in fact supposed to be looting those cargo containers? Or will they blast a few magna-locks off of the cargo containers held precariously overhead, bringing them crashing down onto the deck and creating a solid wall of debris between themselves and the droids? TUNE IN AND FIND OUT!
I've found that creating episodic "title scrolls" helps my players to get into the mood of each session. I use "Star Wars Title Scroll Generator," but if you're not on a Macintosh, you won't have much luck with it. ;)
(For the record, if you look up atomicrocketgames on YouTube, you can see my scroll-videos)
I also made a few adjustments to the basic rules to make certain rules more action-oriented and clear up some of the "hoard this resource like gold until I really really really need it, instead of using it to do bold and stupid things."
Clicky Clicky Spoiler Button
Changes to the SW:SE RPG Character Creation Rules for Jemstone's games:
Races - All standard races from The Star Wars Saga RPG Core Rulebook are available. Races from supplemental texts are available after review by the GM. Only races printed in official Star Wars Saga RPG rulebooks are available.
Classes - All standard classes from The Star Wars Saga RPG Core Rulebook are available. Prestige Classes from the Core Rulebook are available pending a game-appropriate turning point/training point for the character in question. Prestige Classes from other rulebooks are available so long as they are not:
- Genre Specific: A Prestige Class that is only appropriate for a particular Supplement (Such as The Force Unleashed) is not available.
- Timeline Specific: A Prestige Class that is only appropriate for a particular Timeline (Such as The Rebellion Era) is not available.
Destiny - All Destinies from The Star Wars Saga RPG Core Rulebook are available. If you have a specific idea about a Destiny you would like your character to pursue, you may do so. No guarantees are made.
Feats - All Characters start with the base allotment of Feats for their Class, as well as the standard allotment for starting Characters. Additionally:
- Bonus Feat: All Characters begin play with one (1) Bonus Feat. This Feat can be any Feat that the Character may normally take.
- Force Training: All Jedi Characters begin play with the Force Training Feat. If playing a Jedi, the Character does not gain the Bonus Feat, above.
- Genre or Timeline Specific Feats are not allowed under any circumstances.
Talents - All Characters begin play with the base allotment of Talents for their Class. As Characters gain additional levels, they may take Talents from other Saga Edition Sourcebooks, so long as they are not Genre or Timeline specific.
Force Points - Force Points are handled differently than in the Saga Edition Core RPG rulebook. Instead of a diminishing pool that is updated at each level, each Character gets a pool of six (6) Force Points each session to spend. Force Points are further modified as follows:
- The GM reserves the right to hand out additional Force Points to Characters based on their actions and words. Amusing antics, foolish monologues, and thrilling heroics will almost certainly result in the garnering of Force Points.
- Force Boon Feat now grants you a +3 Force Bonus (stacks or does not stack based on other Named Bonuses) to the additional die modifier when using a Force Point. You may take Force Boon more than once. Each time you take it, you may add +3 to an additional roll. For example:
Kersha Gahl has taken the Force Boon Feat, and is using a Force Point to influence a Use The Force check. Normally she would roll 1d20 + 1d6 + 9 (Her Skill Modifier for that Skill). As she has Force Boon, she adds +3 to this result. If she had taken Force Boon more than once, she could add +3 to another Force Point influenced roll at a later time.
Equipment - Characters begin play with a reasonable, appropriate allotment of equipment, and a small amount of spending cash. Characters begin play with one (1) weapon of each type they are proficient with, clothing, and equipment appropriate to their Class and Role/Specialization. Speak to the GM if there is a piece of equipment (Weapons, armor, technology, droids) that you wish to procure but are uncertain about.
Now, obviously, these are specific to my game, and this isn't all of the changes I've made, but I think they illustrate the point - certain things in the base rules end up focusing the characters on hoarding a particular resource, and end up with the characters being far too cautious to accurately represent the way Star Wars films are portrayed (at least in the opinion of myself and my players). I specifically disallow genre/timeline specific feats and the like because they tend to be tooled specifically for that book, and don't often mesh well with mechanics from other books. (see the comment on Galaxy At War that KnightErrantJR brought up)
As others have mentioned, tossing actual monetary wealth out the window is pretty easy to do in the game, and most people I know who run SW:SE games end up doing it about fourth level. Your mileage may of course vary. :)