Can a druid wildshape into animals with templates?

[Taylor Fricke]

Could a druid wildshape into an animal with the young or giant template as long as his wildshape ability allows him to take on a form of that size?

[hogarth]

By the rules, no. Wild shape works the same as polymorph spells, and the polymorph subschool says:

"Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature."

But I don't know if it's particularly overpowered to allow it. Ask your GM.

[Quandary]

You really need to read the Polymorph subsection of the Magic chapter.
You can`t really use any Polymorph spells or abilities (incl. Wildshape) without doing so.

Excerpt:
¨Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced form of a creature¨

That`s RAW. If it is ruled that a Template (e.g Giant) is only being used to simplify the stats of a separate, valid Creature species (e.g. Young Template Dog = Fox) then I think that`s reasonable to allow, but the RAW is exactly what it reads.

Actually, it would be very nice for official Errata / FAQ clarifying how distinct creature types who use Templates only for convenience (like the Fox/Dog example) should be treated for Polymorph purposes. Currently, it seems like Foxes are technically illegal to Polymorph into, per RAW.

[Majuba]

This is an excellent question. RAW, no, due to this text from the magic chapter:

Transmutation, Polymorph wrote:

Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature.

Since Wild Shape acts as Beast Shape (I, etc.), which is a polymorph spell, this would restrict it. It also just makes sense to restrict these sorts of thing in general, to avoid crazy combinations.

However - if it were to be allowed, what should or shouldn't be allowed?

First, no template that changes the type of the animal should be allowed. This includes anything that would raise it's intelligence score above 2.

Second, if there is an existing creature that is appropriate, that must be used. For instance, if there were already a medium sized version of a rat, that should be used instead of a giant version of a dire rat. They would likely be the same/similar, but best to stick to written versions when available.

Third, it would probably be best to limit this to a single application of a template (as some can be applied multiple times). This would keep it closer to "reality" or natural creatures. A medium rat? Sure. A gargantuan one...

Fourth, players and DM should agree to which templates should just be off limits. I forget the name, but a template to add additional heads to a creature may not change the type, but would be far too strong for wild shaping.

I think this would work decently, since most of the changes due to a template would not affect the wild shape largely. The Giant template would increase the size, but the strength and con boost from that would be no greater than any other creature of that size. There are also plenty of examples essentially templated animals, dire animals for instance.

So by the rules, no, but it could work well with some guidelines.

Edit: Ninja'd by my loquaciousness!

[LazarX]

Taylor Fricke wrote:

Could a druid wildshape into an animal with the young or giant template as long as his wildshape ability allows him to take on a form of that size?

They can within reasonable limites. i.e. it has to be a "natural" template, not "celestial, vampiric, etc." but beyond cosmetic differences, they'll still only get whatever is allowed by whichever Beast Shape spell their wildshape mimmics.