If I'm reading this right:
At 5th level, the mobile fighter gains +1 to attack and damage rolls if he moves at least 5 feet prior to attacking. This increases by +1 for every 4 levels beyond 5th.
Then at 9th level, he gains weapon training 2 gaining +1 to attack and damage rolls with a weapon group. This also presumably increases by +1 for every 4 levels beyond 9th.
So at 17th level, added together, the mobile fighter gains +7 to attack and damage rolls:
Leaping Attack: (5th, 9th, 13th, 17th) for +4
Weapon Training 2: (9th, 13th, 17th) for +3
Woe betide if he chooses a ranged weapon.
That's how I interpret as well.
Can someone confirm or deny this please? Thanks :)
Confirmed. That's how it works.
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I take it needs a move action and not a 5 ft step to get the bonus
It would be horrible if that was the case. It's not skirmish.
And it says 5ft. so 5ft step qualifies.
meh. Fighters fight well. That's ok. They don't smite/rage/etc. They don't have the skills or class abilities that other melee classes have. They fight. And they do it well.
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It would be horrible if that was the case. It's not skirmish.
And it says 5ft. so 5ft step qualifies.
meh. Fighters fight well. That's ok. They don't smite/rage/etc. They don't have the skills or class abilities that other melee classes have. They fight. And they do it well.
I personally believe that this is a case of errata, otherwise this would be the most powerful Fighter Archetype around - much more than the specialized Weapon Master (which gains a total of +5 at 19th level) and on the opposite side of the Free Hand Fighter (which by RAW gains only a single +1 at 5th level).
My take is, Leaping Attack should replace Weapon Training 1-4, and consequently Singleton (for the Free Hand Fighter) should scale every 4 levels (like all similar abiities gained in place of Weapon Training). Otherwise, there would be no balance at all - seriously, a +7 hit/damage taking a single 5-ft.step is ridiculously overpowered if compared to ALL other Weapon Training specializations, IMHO.
Just my 2c.
Actually, by the core, weapon training groups do not stack. You take the higher bonus of the two to apply.
Weapon Training (Ex): Starting at 5th level, a fighter can select one group of weapons, as noted below. Whenever he attacks with a weapon from this group, he gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls.
Every four levels thereafter (9th, 13th, and 17th), a fighter becomes further trained in another group of weapons. He gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls when using a weapon from this group. In addition, the bonuses granted by previous weapon groups increase by +1 each. For example, when a fighter reaches 9th level, he receives a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with one weapon group and a +2 bonus on attack and damage rolls with the weapon group selected at 5th level. Bonuses granted from overlapping groups do not stack. Take the highest bonus granted for a weapon if it resides in two or more groups.
Otherwise, yes it would be rather obscene. As it is, it's still very nice since it will work with ANY weapon if the fighter at least moves 5' instead of being limited to a small grouping.
EDIT:Emphasis mine.
Actually, by the core, weapon training groups do not stack. You take the higher bonus of the two to apply.
(...)
Otherwise, yes it would be rather obscene. As it is, it's still very nice since it will work with ANY weapon if the fighter at least moves 5' instead of being limited to a small grouping.
Hmm, your reading may be the right one, I concur. In this case, Weapon Training 2-3-4 would still have some sense without being overpowered: if forced to be completely still in place (no 5-ft. step) the Fighter would benefit from a (slightly less powerful) Weapon Training; if allowed to move, it would use the more powerful one.
Still a VERY powerful ability (maybe a little too much, IMHO, and I still hope the 'replaces Weapon Training 1' is a mistype), but at least not so broken.
Hmm, your reading may be the right one, I concur. In this case, Weapon Training 2-3-4 would still have some sense without being overpowered: if forced to be completely still in place (no 5-ft. step) the Fighter would benefit from a (slightly less powerful) Weapon Training; if allowed to move, it would use the more powerful one.
Still a VERY powerful ability (maybe a little too much, IMHO, and I still hope the 'replaces Weapon Training 1' is a mistype), but at least not so broken.
Yeah, I'm reading the 'replaces Weapon Training 1' as replacing the ability to choose what Weapon Training 1 can be applied to. Instead of choosing a group of weapons, the mobile fighter in this case gets the training in combats where he's moving about the battle field. Personally, I think it reads best if it's assumed the bonuses are really coming from the same source, a fighter's training from the Weapon Training ability.
I agree that it's VERY strong, as it's rare (though it can/does happen) that you can not make any move during combat and it works with all attack and damage rolls. It makes difficult terrain and other such items that much more effective against the mobile fighter.
That line you highlighted Sniggevert is concerning weapon groups.
Weapon Training (Ex):Starting at 5th level, a fighter can select one group of weapons ... Bonuses granted from overlapping groups do not stack. Take the highest bonus granted for a weapon if it resides in two or more groups.
It's not talking about stacking the Weapon Training bonus and other bonuses.
That line you highlighted Sniggevert is concerning weapon groups.
...
It's not talking about stacking the Weapon Training bonus and other bonuses.
Right, but this discussion has been about stacking the archtype ability (Leaping Attack) that is being put in the place of Weapon Training 1. It looks, acts, and advances just like a Weapon Training group. It's a bonus coming from the same class ability, so I, personally, see no reason why it would be treated any different, than any other use of the same class ability.
In my reading of it, Leaping Attack = Weapon Training 1 and would follow the same benefits and restrictions of WT1.