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I was wondering if there was an official ruling about whether or not you can swap any of these free evolutions? I for one don't care for my humanoid eidolon to have claws. My plan is to have my young scrawny summoner bluff everyone into believing his eidolon is his older protective brother, and the claws would definitely give that away.
Or say someone wanted a chocobo or something similar to an ostrich, none of the base forms would really work for that.
Last I saw, the ruling from James was no switching. And the bird thing has been an annoyance since the playtest.
If you go look on the pathfinder db website, I put up some alternate summoner stuff that included a base form suitable for a chocobo or bipedal dino. I'd post the link, but I'm typing on my phone while sitting on a plane.
Not sure if your gm will allow homebrew or not.
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Or say someone wanted a chocobo or something similar to an ostrich, none of the base forms would really work for that.
I dont see why you couldn't make a bird that walks on 2 legs. Just play the secondary arms up to be flightless wings, nothing prevents you from doing that. It still gets its claw attacks, you can choose to put them on the legs if you want.
As far as getting a flying eidolon... I think it is important to remember that flight is a MASSIVE advantage in this game and giving it to you at level one for a medium or even small size creature would WRECK in game balance. Yes wizards and witches can get flying creatures as familiars but keep in mind that they as dramatically weaker and cannot simply be re-summoned if they are killed. As it is you can already get it at level 5 which to me is a fair level, I think it is important to note that you have complete control over what your eidolon looks like and you get a chance to reshape it every time you level up.
Just say the claws are retractable. No giveaway then (other than the glowing rune).
Seems easy enough.
B
Or say someone wanted a chocobo or something similar to an ostrich, none of the base forms would really work for that.I dont see why you couldn't make a bird that walks on 2 legs. Just play the secondary arms up to be flightless wings, nothing prevents you from doing that. It still gets its claw attacks, you can choose to put them on the legs if you want.
As far as getting a flying eidolon... I think it is important to remember that flight is a MASSIVE advantage in this game and giving it to you at level one for a medium or even small size creature would WRECK in game balance. Yes wizards and witches can get flying creatures as familiars but keep in mind that they as dramatically weaker and cannot simply be re-summoned if they are killed. As it is you can already get it at level 5 which to me is a fair level, I think it is important to note that you have complete control over what your eidolon looks like and you get a chance to reshape it every time you level up.
*sigh*
I'll assume you don't have a clue what a chocobo is, but his comment about ostriches was sort of a clue.
It's a giant flightless bird. Note that *nobody* said anything about flight but you.
Sorry, just that this is a pet peeve since someone always says 'just handwave it', but that doesn't work in organized play.
And you can't ignore the arms because you canMt mount bipeds.
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I'll assume you don't have a clue what a chocobo is, but his comment about ostriches was sort of a clue.
It's a giant flightless bird. Note that *nobody* said anything about flight but you.
Sorry, just that this is a pet peeve since someone always says 'just handwave it', but that doesn't work in organized play.
And you can't ignore the arms because you canMt mount bipeds.
Yes I know what a chocobo is but prior to just looking it up I was unaware that you could only mount a quadraped or a serpentine. Hmmm that is a bit of a problem then huh...
I guess my question then is what happens when you give a biped another set of legs, does it then become a quadraped and qualify for mount?
Nope,
Base form never changes. Which results in the idiocy of a centaur built as a biped with extra legs not being ridable, but a centaur with arms built off a quadruped being a valid mount. Same limb and configuration, one mountable and the other not.
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I'm sure there's no official ruling on this, but wouldn't it work to treat the free evlutions like any others and "lose" the ones you don't want when you change evolutions at 2nd level and beyond? Since you'd have to buy back the free evolutions from that point on, it doesn't seem like there would be a balance issue. It would retain the base form and likely lose some speed(I could see a legless quadruped moving with some sort of bouncing, for example), but much like the complimentary breakfast served at some hotels, just because it's there doesn't mean you have to eat it.
Unless Jason says we have to, in which case I'll get the spoons and forks.
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Nope,
Base form never changes. Which results in the idiocy of a centaur built as a biped with extra legs not being ridable, but a centaur with arms built off a quadruped being a valid mount. Same limb and configuration, one mountable and the other not.
I think the easiest fix to this is simply letting all eidolons function as mounts as long as they posses the size to function as such. That and a clause talking about how the creature has to be of a reasonable shape to be ride-able.
Agreed, in my home campaign I'm rewriting half the class. But, for RAW and organized play, it's biped no mount an base evolutions locked and unchangeable.
As far as getting a flying eidolon... I think it is important to remember that flight is a MASSIVE advantage in this game and giving it to you at level one for a medium or even small size creature would WRECK in game balance.
Druids can get Rocs and Pterodons as animal companions at level 1.
As far as getting a flying eidolon... I think it is important to remember that flight is a MASSIVE advantage in this game and giving it to you at level one for a medium or even small size creature would WRECK in game balance.Druids can get Rocs and Pterodons as animal companions at level 1.
Shhhh, your sound logic is a clarion call for the summoner Troll brigade, who's sworn duty is to enter all discussions of summoners and spew acidic bile to get the thread locked by staff.
;-)
EDIT: oh, you forgot dire bats, which can be ridden by small druids.
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As far as getting a flying eidolon... I think it is important to remember that flight is a MASSIVE advantage in this game and giving it to you at level one for a medium or even small size creature would WRECK in game balance.Druids can get Rocs and Pterodons as animal companions at level 1.
I was under the impression that animal companions with at 7th level advancement weren't available until level 4 as they all start off with significantly better stats than the 4th level advancement pets. That is how it was with 3.5... did they seriously not transfer that over?
Animal companions have a starting and advanced form that kicks in at level 4. There are no more 'you must be this tall to have a tiger' rules. You can start with a small tiger at 1st level and he becomes medium (or is that med then large?) At 4th.
You were mistaken. And it's nothing at all like how 3.5 did it; 3.5 had animal companions whose base stats didn't change but instead used the actual stats of various Bestiary creatures, where higher HD creatures had higher level restrictions. Pathfinder intentionally changed that because it was moronic that your "lifelong friend" got changed out every 3 levels for a better version. Instead, you get to have your friend from level 1, and he grows with your character.
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You were mistaken. And it's nothing at all like how 3.5 did it; 3.5 had animal companions whose base stats didn't change but instead used the actual stats of various Bestiary creatures, where higher HD creatures had higher level restrictions. Pathfinder intentionally changed that because it was moronic that your "lifelong friend" got changed out every 3 levels for a better version. Instead, you get to have your friend from level 1, and he grows with your character.
Hmmm... well, then that's kinda messed up then. I guess it makes more sense but balance wise... idk. Though they do now have to deal with the whole putting ranks into fly to make it even marginally feasible thing so maybe it levels out.
Hmmm... well, then that's kinda messed up then. I guess it makes more sense but balance wise... idk. Though they do now have to deal with the whole putting ranks into fly to make it even marginally feasible thing so maybe it levels out.You were mistaken. And it's nothing at all like how 3.5 did it; 3.5 had animal companions whose base stats didn't change but instead used the actual stats of various Bestiary creatures, where higher HD creatures had higher level restrictions. Pathfinder intentionally changed that because it was moronic that your "lifelong friend" got changed out every 3 levels for a better version. Instead, you get to have your friend from level 1, and he grows with your character.
You're forgetting, the animal companion has a natural fly speed, therefore it get's a +8 to fly skill.
All of this really just points out that you can load up a tiger on a druid, buff him, and eat an eidelon's lunch all day long. That's even assuming you go toe to toe with the eidelon. If the druid tells his tiger to take down the summoner while he wildshapes into a bear and delays the eidelon (or vice versa)...
Now don't start this again. And before anyone says, "Then don't read the threads", keep in mind that what I'm asking to be stopped is what gets threads like this locked by the staff. ;)
Now don't start this again. And before anyone says, "Then don't read the threads", keep in mind that what I'm asking to be stopped is what gets threads like this locked by the staff. ;)
I'll make you a deal, you don't spew bile, and I won't shoot at the Thermo Nuclear Device. :)
Take the 4 legs evolution and have the other two be vestigial =O
Take the 4 legs evolution and have the other two be vestigial =O
Not sure which post you're replying too, so not sure exactly what your idea is. However, having evolutions that don't actually do anything is kind of lame, IMHO. Plus it still doesn't address the 'only quadrupeds and serpentine can be ridden' issue.
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Huh... I step away for some tv and the thread explodes... :)
I'm with mdt, how lame is it to just not use a point of evolution? Although, I suppose that's what I'm going to end up doing, since I'm not going to have him use the claws...
Another question, think its right, but thought i'd ask it here. Can an eidolon who took a weapon prof feat use the weapon? I ask, simply because the wording on weapon training makes it sound like you need it before he can use weapons, even though he qualifies for any feat he meets the prereq's for... I was planning on having my "big bro" wield a bastard sword by taking the EWP feat at first level.
The evolution let's you do it without taking a feat. If you take the feat, you can't change that when you level. It's actually a nice bit of flexibility in the class. Nice if you need to use weapons for a few levels but don't want to blow a peermanent feat on it.
Now don't start this again. And before anyone says, "Then don't read the threads", keep in mind that what I'm asking to be stopped is what gets threads like this locked by the staff. ;)I'll make you a deal, you don't spew bile, and I won't shoot at the Thermo Nuclear Device. :)
I don't spew bile :(.
U
I don't spew bile :(.Now don't start this again. And before anyone says, "Then don't read the threads", keep in mind that what I'm asking to be stopped is what gets threads like this locked by the staff. ;)I'll make you a deal, you don't spew bile, and I won't shoot at the Thermo Nuclear Device. :)
That was a reference to a post I made about three or four up, and a joke (see the smiley face)... and you totally missed the Broken Arrow reference.
As far as getting a flying eidolon... I think it is important to remember that flight is a MASSIVE advantage in this game and giving it to you at level one for a medium or even small size creature would WRECK in game balance.Druids can get Rocs and Pterodons as animal companions at level 1.Shhhh, your sound logic is a clarion call for the summoner Troll brigade, who's sworn duty is to enter all discussions of summoners and spew acidic bile to get the thread locked by staff.
;-)
EDIT: oh, you forgot dire bats, which can be ridden by small druids.
@JMD031: see, ref this
@JMD031: see, ref this
As far as getting a flying eidolon... I think it is important to remember that flight is a MASSIVE advantage in this game and giving it to you at level one for a medium or even small size creature would WRECK in game balance.Druids can get Rocs and Pterodons as animal companions at level 1.Shhhh, your sound logic is a clarion call for the summoner Troll brigade, who's sworn duty is to enter all discussions of summoners and spew acidic bile to get the thread locked by staff.
;-)
EDIT: oh, you forgot dire bats, which can be ridden by small druids.
Now I'm going to lose my nerd badge. :(
Now I'm going to lose my nerd badge. :(
@JMD031: see, ref this
Nah,
Nerds are easy to bribe. Just bring cheese pizza to the next union meeting. ;)|
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Take the 4 legs evolution and have the other two be vestigial =ONot sure which post you're replying too, so not sure exactly what your idea is. However, having evolutions that don't actually do anything is kind of lame, IMHO. Plus it still doesn't address the 'only quadrupeds and serpentine can be ridden' issue.
I think that was directed at the Original Poster and his/her question.
Well I will say this about riding giant flightless birds. It has been an accepted theory now for years that dinosaurs have evolved into birds. There as never been such a thing as true biped dinosaur but some of them did walk on their back legs. Their forward arms, in the case of a lot of the carnivores became less useful. Overtime following various evolution paths those forward legs became semi like arms but with limited movement because of the skeletal structure. Eventually those forward limbs became wings.
Now it is true that it has been officially ruled that you can't swap out the free evolutions but I think you can replace them or even say you don't want them. As far as a I know there is nothing in the rules that says you must use the free feats. You might offer me a free smack against the side of the head but I am not likely going to accept it. You could at a first level take a quadruped, chop the forward limbs off to numbs, glue on some feathers, spray some gold paint, pick from our selection of fine beaks and make good with a fine chocobo.
Personally I kind of wish they did the eidolon a little bit more like Spore and just have you start with a blob in which you can shape like playdough and stick parts on.
Re: Chocobo/Ostrich
Couldn't you just do Serpentine base form and add legs? (and say it is has useless feathery nub arms as well with no game impact) Or is it that you need it to be fast too?