The Pathfinder armory lists a block and tackle which gives a +5 bonus to Str checks made to lift heavy objects.
However, the only rules I am aware of that govern how much one can lift are in the Carrying Capacity rules located on page 169 in the PRPG Core in which list some very specific numbers based on Strength.
Is there something else I am missing
. or is this just an anomaly?
Creative Director
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The Pathfinder armory lists a block and tackle which gives a +5 bonus to Str checks made to lift heavy objects.
However, the only rules I am aware of that govern how much one can lift are in the Carrying Capacity rules located on page 169 in the PRPG Core in which list some very specific numbers based on Strength.
Is there something else I am missing
. or is this just an anomaly?
The game has pretty much NEVER bothered to give rules for the items listed as "adventuring gear." There's no game effect, really, for using a bedroll instead of sleeping on the ground, or for using an iron pot to cook food as opposed to a clay jug. Same goes for the block and tackle. It's basically just flavor, to be honest—and it's also something that a GM might simply rule is needed to lift certain types of objects.
There's no actual rules benefit for using a block and tackle, though. Unless house rules become involved.
(For what it's worth, I DO kind of wish all the adventuring gear had actual game effects, but that would have a SIGNIFICANT impact on the game, especially since items are "balanced" by how much they cost in gp—it'd be a pretty major task to develop these rules, I suspect... and that's not something we were interested or able to do for these rules, which had to maintain compatibility AND fit in an already enormous book.)
The Pathfinder armory lists a block and tackle which gives a +5 bonus to Str checks made to lift heavy objects.
However, the only rules I am aware of that govern how much one can lift are in the Carrying Capacity rules located on page 169 in the PRPG Core in which list some very specific numbers based on Strength.
Is there something else I am missing
. or is this just an anomaly?The game has pretty much NEVER bothered to give rules for the items listed as "adventuring gear." There's no game effect, really, for using a bedroll instead of sleeping on the ground, or for using an iron pot to cook food as opposed to a clay jug. Same goes for the block and tackle. It's basically just flavor, to be honest—and it's also something that a GM might simply rule is needed to lift certain types of objects.
There's no actual rules benefit for using a block and tackle, though. Unless house rules become involved.
(For what it's worth, I DO kind of wish all the adventuring gear had actual game effects, but that would have a SIGNIFICANT impact on the game, especially since items are "balanced" by how much they cost in gp—it'd be a pretty major task to develop these rules, I suspect... and that's not something we were interested or able to do for these rules, which had to maintain compatibility AND fit in an already enormous book.)
Thanks James. That is pretty much what I thought but was a little thrown off by the +5 bonus given so thought i might have missed a rules subset somewhere. Incidentally, I typically assign a DC to lift things based upon a characters max load when it comes up and the block and tackle will fit right into that.
I know what you mean about the "effect" of gear. If you only knew how many times I was asked "How far does a spyglass let you see anyway?".
The Pathfinder armory lists a block and tackle which gives a +5 bonus to Str checks made to lift heavy objects.
However, the only rules I am aware of that govern how much one can lift are in the Carrying Capacity rules located on page 169 in the PRPG Core in which list some very specific numbers based on Strength.
Is there something else I am missing
. or is this just an anomaly?
The same carrying capacity chart also says this:
A character can lift as much as double his maximum load off the ground, but he or she can only stagger around with it. While overloaded in this way, the character loses any Dexterity bonus to AC and can move only 5 feet per round (as a full-round action).
A character can generally push or drag along the ground as much as five times his maximum load. Favorable conditions can double these numbers, and bad circumstances can reduce them by half or more.
While it's not a STR check, this might be a useful interpretation:
Thus, a character with STR 12 can lift 130 pounds off the ground and can push/drag 650 pounds, but if he uses a block&tackle, he gets to add +5 to his STR for this calculation, allowing him to lift 260 pounds and push/drag 1,300 pounds. This is exactly double, by the way, no matter what your STR is.
Or as The Black Bard points out, it takes 2 points of STR to get a +1 to a STR check, so +5 to a STR is equal to +10 STR, so maybe this guy could add +10 to his STR for the calculation, allowing a lift of 520 pounds and a push/drag of 2,600 pounds.
DM Blake, you're close. A +5 bonus on a check would be the same bonus given for having 10 extra points in an ability score. So you could use a block and tackle as an artificial +10 to Str for the purposes of lifting something, rather than +5, which would simply apply to any Str Check called for by the DM (say, perhaps, if something down below started tugging on what you were lifting).
Convieniently enough, +10 Str on the Carrying Capacity table is just x4 you current capacity. So, short version of the flow of math/logic.
Block and Tackle: This allows you to life x4 more weight than normal.
Obviously, its not going to help you carry ten sacks of gold coins or an army's worth of trail rations. But it will help you get your unconcious half-orc barbarian out of that pit, or that solid gold life size anatomically correct elf maiden statue up the 3 sets of stairs and into your wagon.
DM Blake, you're close. A +5 bonus on a check would be the same bonus given for having 10 extra points in an ability score. So you could use a block and tackle as an artificial +10 to Str for the purposes of lifting something, rather than +5, which would simply apply to any Str Check called for by the DM (say, perhaps, if something down below started tugging on what you were lifting).
Convieniently enough, +10 Str on the Carrying Capacity table is just x4 you current capacity. So, short version of the flow of math/logic.
Block and Tackle: This allows you to life x4 more weight than normal.
Obviously, its not going to help you carry ten sacks of gold coins or an army's worth of trail rations. But it will help you get your unconcious half-orc barbarian out of that pit, or that solid gold life size anatomically correct elf maiden statue up the 3 sets of stairs and into your wagon.
True, your math is correct, but x4 weight is an awful lot.
Considering the rules presented for the item suggest +5 to a STR check, and very few (maybe none) checks of any kind are 4x as effective for a mere +5 to the roll, I'm not sure I'd go quite far as to interpret it this way.
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Creative Director
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A character can generally push or drag along the ground as much as five times his maximum load. Favorable conditions can double these numbers, and bad circumstances can reduce them by half or more.
Excellent find!
I'd certainly rule that using a block and tackle equates to "favorable conditions."
I guess it's a good thing we write these rules down in public places like books so that more folks can help figure them out than just me!
True, your math is correct, but x4 weight is an awful lot.
Not really. How much does an Engine Block weigh? A normal 6 cylinder engine weighs about 650 pounds or so.
I am a decently strong 30 year old male, but I in now way assume I'm STR 18. I'm above average, due to size and build, and "holdover" muscle tone from when I did martial arts and farm work.
At best I have a STR of 13 (maybe 14, but I doubt it), relative to my carrying capacity. That gives me a heavy load of 150 pounds (which is about right, I can hustle along moderately well with a 60 pound bag of dog food, but I'm definitely not sprinting if I throw my brother over my shoulder). Technically, I can stagger arround with 300 pounds (again, about true, I can pick up a freind who weighs 250 and move, but not fast, and I would never try to run with that kind of weight).
So a 650 pound engine block is out of the question to lift by myself (again, true). However, with a decent block and tackle (and the scaffolding for it), I can easily haul an engine block out of a car.
So to me, the x4 to lifting capacity with a block and tackle feels very appropriate. As always, ymmv.
I can also see adding a pully system to a big door granting one a +5 bonus on Strength checks made to pull it off its hinges.