So i'm designing a Monk/Rogue Combination and using the Ascetic Rogue feat from Complete Adventurer. Now the only problems I can seem to come up with is that Flurry of blows does not stack with the feat. Thus you would have to take the feats seperately (TWF,ITWF, GTWF) for it to work. My question is flurry of blows uses the monk level to determine attacks, would you still be able to take ITWF since you 'gain' it as a first level monk?
Ascetic Rogue
You have gone beyond the bounds of your monastic training to incorporate new modes of stealthy combat. Although your fellow monks may frown on your methods, none can doubt that your diverse training has improved your ability to strike precisely and bring down
your foes quickly.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, sneak attack.
Benefit: When you use an unarmed strike with a sneak attack to deliver a stunning attack, you add 2 to the DC of your stunning attempt.
If you have levels in rogue and monk, those levels stack for the purpose of determining your unarmed strike damage. For example, a human 5th-level rogue/1st-level monk would deal 1d8 points of damage with her unarmed strike.
In addition, you can multiclass freely between the monk and rogue classes. You must still remain lawful in order to retain your monk abilities and take monk levels.
No, you never get TWF. Flurry of Blows only mentions TWF because they don't want you to stack Flurry and TWF (as you could in 3.5). Personally, I think mentioning it was a mistake for this exact reason.
There is no way to increase your ability to Flurry beyond taking more levels of monk. If you want to dual wield, you need the entire feat chain.
Take a monk class that trades out flurry.
I don't understand - why wouldn't Flurry stack with Ascetic Rogue?
It seems like you could Flurry unarmed while flanking, use your first attack for your Stunning Fist with the +2 DC, and then make the rest of your attacks as normal. What is the conflict between the two?
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I don't understand - why wouldn't Flurry stack with Ascetic Rogue?
It seems like you could Flurry unarmed while flanking, use your first attack for your Stunning Fist with the +2 DC, and then make the rest of your attacks as normal. What is the conflict between the two?
He wants the extra attacks that come with Flurry later on.
Flurry progression is kind of weird if you multiclass and a master of many styles/ quigong monk may be a better choice in terms of feat and power selection.
He wants the extra attacks that come with Flurry later on.I don't understand - why wouldn't Flurry stack with Ascetic Rogue?
It seems like you could Flurry unarmed while flanking, use your first attack for your Stunning Fist with the +2 DC, and then make the rest of your attacks as normal. What is the conflict between the two?
Oh ok. In that case, I would recommend just taking one Rogue level and then taking the rest of your levels as a Monk. For the purposes of Ascetic Rogue, it doesn't matter if your Sneak Attack dice are 1d6 or 5d6, you still get the same +2 DC bonus.
Going Rogue 1/Monk X is good because you keep up your Flurry progression (along with other class features). The alternative if you want lots of attacks (going to TWF/ITWF route) is not only feat intensive, but you don't get to use your Monk level instead of your BAB like you get to do for Flurry. Monks already have trouble hitting with Flurry, with TWF they'd have almost no chance.
If you are ultimately taking more rogue levels than 1-2, I agree with the suggestions not to worry about flurry of blows, the reason being that your flurry is "full bab" only for the monk levels you have. For example, a 3rd level monk, 1st level rogue's BAB for the purposes of determining flurry starts at 3, not 4 (and then of course it's -2/-2 from there). By multiclassing with another d8 class, you lose out on your potential to hit with flurry, and given it is already a challenge for monks to hit with unarmed strikes as they level, I fear you would find yourself very frustrated to get off flurry the way you would like.
Another reason not to focus on flurry of blows is the feat you want to take enhances your Stunning Fist. Stunning fist takes a standard action IIRC to get off, so you can never flurry when you are stunning. While it's nice to do when you can't stun, there's no synergy (a problem with several monk abilities, unfortunately).
The monk archetypes that I can find that replace flurry include Master of Many Styles and Tetori, both of which would probably be interesting choices for a monk/rogue. I can see a lot gotten out of Master of Many Styles.
if my early morning muddled brain didn't miss it, these abilities also do not replace Still Mind. This means you can take Monastic Legacy, which allows your unarmed damage dice to increase as if you were a single class monk--nice for a character focusing on unarmed strikes.
Another reason not to focus on flurry of blows is the feat you want to take enhances your Stunning Fist. Stunning fist takes a standard action IIRC to get off, so you can never flurry when you are stunning.
You can definitely use Stunning Fist while flurrying. It's not a standard action, it's a non-action that you can attempt once per round with an unarmed strike.
Another option would be to take the feat Cornugon Stun which lets you use Stunning Fist with any monk weapon. Flurry with a (magic) temple sword and get your Stunning Fist attempt in there, too!
If you are using 3.5, then just take sneak attack as a feat as it is detailed in unearthed arcana. The aesthetic rogue feat would be useless to you, but you will have no dipping issues.
Ok, so I'm not the original poster, obviously, but why are people talking about Stunning Fist like that has anything to do with why someone would take Ascetic Rogue?
The point of the feat is that you can take Rogue levels while gaining scaling Unarmed damage. This does not make the feat very good, but I am 95% that is his purpose. He actually wants to be a Rogue, but he wants to punch stuff instead of stabbing them.
I don't really know how to offer advice since the point of the character combines two of the weakest ways to deal damage (Sneak Attack and increasing the base weapon damage die) and, in fact, the two worst classes in Pathfinder.
My best advice would be play a different character. Otherwise, at least be a Ninja, since they are slightly upgraded Rogues.
Really? The Stunning Fist seems to be the draw for me. Like you said, increasing damage dice is nothing, but causing the Stunned condition is AMAZING.
Dipping one level of Rogue as a monk gets you A) all the class skills and skill points, B) extra 1d6 sneak damage (good for a flurrying monk because otherwise damage can be paltry), C) +2 to Stunning Fist DCs, and D) possibly a useful archetype like Investigator or Swashbuckler. I would also add E) proficiency with the whip.
Another reason not to focus on flurry of blows is the feat you want to take enhances your Stunning Fist. Stunning fist takes a standard action IIRC to get off, so you can never flurry when you are stunning.You can definitely use Stunning Fist while flurrying. It's not a standard action, it's a non-action that you can attempt once per round with an unarmed strike.
Another option would be to take the feat Cornugon Stun which lets you use Stunning Fist with any monk weapon. Flurry with a (magic) temple sword and get your Stunning Fist attempt in there, too!
Why do I always get that wrong? I swear to god last time I talked about combining flurry with a Stunning fist and someone proved to me you couldn't. I swear, they're editing the PRD just to tease me! ;)
In seriousness, thanks. I should have checked. My thoughts on not wanting flurry for other reasons (rogue vs monk-flurry bab) stand.
Ok, so I'm not the original poster, obviously, but why are people talking about Stunning Fist like that has anything to do with why someone would take Ascetic Rogue?
From what he said above here:
When you use an unarmed strike with a sneak attack to deliver a stunning attack, you add 2 to the DC of your stunning attempt.
I assumed that referred to stunning fist (converting from 3.x to Pathfinder).
The point of the feat is that you can take Rogue levels while gaining scaling Unarmed damage. This does not make the feat very good, but I am 95% that is his purpose. He actually wants to be a Rogue, but he wants to punch stuff instead of stabbing them.
That I did miss. Why do I read these message boards before consuming caffeine? Seriously, crazy IS doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
So nix my advice on needing Monastic Legacy, as this feat gives it to you plus the improved DC.