Is the ever popular Wizard / Rogue a good option?... Help!


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I am very impressed with all of paizo's classes. However, I was wondering if building a Wizard/ Rogue is a good idea with all the awesome level stuff in the new core classes. Or should you follow the addage never multi-class a caster...Help please, and waht is the best build for it?

Sovereign Court

Half-Elf wizard/rogue, prcing into Arcane Trickster ASAP.


If your DM lets you squeeze in a level of assassin, the arcane trickster can get into the PrC while only missing out on two levels of casting. You do miss out on evasion and a talent, though.

Wizard 4/Rogue 1 to qualify for Assassin.

Wizard 4/Rogue 1/Assassin 1 qualifies for Arcane Trickster.

There's just that little issue of being evil...


Umbral Reaver wrote:

If your DM lets you squeeze in a level of assassin, the arcane trickster can get into the PrC while only missing out on two levels of casting. You do miss out on evasion and a talent, though.

Wizard 4/Rogue 1 to qualify for Assassin.

Wizard 4/Rogue 1/Assassin 1 qualifies for Arcane Trickster.

There's just that little issue of being evil...

that and a bab even worse than a single class wizard.


Umbral Reaver wrote:
If your DM lets you squeeze in a level of assassin, the arcane trickster can get into the PrC while only missing out on two levels of casting. You do miss out on evasion and a talent, though.

Evasion is a good thing, as Wizard/Rogue/AT tend towards the lower end of the HP scale.

Arcane Tricksters (there is NO reason not to go for this PrC is you are multiclassing) should be treated as spelled-up Rogues, however, NOT sneaked-up Wizards. You are a rogue first, wizard second. If you expect to play "I am the BOOMSTICK!" you'll be disappointed, but if you realize that you're a rogue with an extra large super-sack of sneaky magical tricks, you'll probably end up cackling maniacally to yourself in slow moments of the game.

That's a good thing, BTW. :D

That said, taking ONE level of Rogue really fills out a wizard in the skills department. If you've got an off-beat wizard concept, a Rogue dip can make it happen, what with all those class skills. A wizard gets enough skill points to make most concepts happen, but the lack of class skills is often hampering.


Umbral Reaver wrote:

If your DM lets you squeeze in a level of assassin, the arcane trickster can get into the PrC while only missing out on two levels of casting. You do miss out on evasion and a talent, though.

Wizard 4/Rogue 1 to qualify for Assassin.

Wizard 4/Rogue 1/Assassin 1 qualifies for Arcane Trickster.

There's just that little issue of being evil...

And if you have the Magical Knack trait you maintain your CL at your Character level..not bad

+1 on the spelled up rogue.


Having played an Arcane Trickster briefly in 3.5 and seen a Wizard/Rogue/Arcane Trickster in action up to 9th level so far in Pathfinder I can offer you some practical advice.

- Make sure that either the Magical Knack trait is available. If not then you're likely to feel very underpowered at times.
- Assuming you were able to take Magical Knack (or the old 3.5 Practiced Spellcaster feat), concentrate on spells with level dependent variables. You're probably only one caster level behind a full Wizard in this regards, so the results should be good. Shocking Grasp and Scorching Ray are obvious choices.
- A familiar can be very useful. Alertness and skill bonuses are great for the trapfinder role as well as making sure you get to act in the surprise round (which is a big deal with sneak attack)
- The familiar also allows you to take Improved Familiar (aka Flank Buddy)
- Familiar get your skill ranks, so something like a mephit can use wands. Flanking an enemy with wands of shocking burst can easily produce 14d6 or more damage without even using spells (the wands only cost 1875gp to craft)
- On the other hand, an arcane bond item would help combat your low number of spells per day (I still like the familiar better)
- When you sneak attack with Vampiric Touch the sneak attack damage counts towards the temporary HP earned.
- Metamagic rods are a very good idea for the AT.
- Halfling or human are probably the best race selections.

Grand Lodge

gnomewizard wrote:
I am very impressed with all of paizo's classes. However, I was wondering if building a Wizard/ Rogue is a good idea with all the awesome level stuff in the new core classes. Or should you follow the addage never multi-class a caster...Help please, and waht is the best build for it?

The problem with the "Neer multi-class a caster" is that the underlying assumption is that you're still thinking of the ultimate caster with 9 levels of spells when you reach 20th level of play.

When you kick yourself out of that confining box, you realise that you have a wide variety of options that you can tune to your preference. In Living City my Arcane Trickster was built from a 4/6 Rogue/Sorcerer base which gave me a lot of possibilities as essentially a Magical Mystery man.

You can tune your allotment of Rogue and Wizard levels based on how much you want to draw from each source of power, do you want more spells and magical effects, or do you want to mainly draw from rogue tricks, sneak attacks and a couple of complementary magical abilities on the side?

There is no "best" build because there's no single standard that all rogue/arcanist combinations should meet, there is instead a very wide variety of ultimate character destinations and you should choose the road that sings to you.

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