| PuddingSeven |
What happens when the target of a Charm Person spell makes their saving throw?
Does the target know they were just hit with a spell?
If so, does the target know what kind of spell or what effect it may have been, had it succeeded?
Do they automatically know who cast it? (What if it was a sorcerer with Still spell and silent spell?)
Also, what happens when the spell duration expires? Do they know they were charmed?
| Thazar |
From page 216 of the core book.
Succeeding on a Saving Throw: A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack.
At best the target would have to make a spellcraft check to determine what spell was just cast on him. Otherwise they get no real idea about what happened.
As far as when the spell wears off. Charm spells do not cause mind control and the subject has free will. They just have their opinion about a subject changed. Once the spell wears of the person may or may not really know what happened. They could make a Spellcraft or Knowledge Arcana check possible to get clues. Otherwise they just don't know what it was that they saw in their "Friend". In a magic would they may or may not have a vague idea that magic was involved.
Maybe they think they were drunk. Or maybe they think the guy used to by nicer... but now is kind of a dork. They may even think that the "old friend" is under the effects of magic NOW and that is why they are acting weird. All of these choices are RP based, and per RAW once it wears off you just think you do not like someone as much as you used to.
| BenignFacist |
From page 216 of the core book.
Succeeding on a Saving Throw: A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack.
At best the target would have to make a spellcraft check to determine what spell was just cast on him. Otherwise they get no real idea about what happened.
..they may not be able to deduce the exact nature of the attack but personally, if I lived in a magical world of wizards and witches, magic and enchantment, and I saw someone staring at me, waving their hands around and muttering strange words, I'd freak out! O_O
Charm Person raises a lot of arguments at our table because.. well, lets face it, it's a form of magical manipulation and if caught the caster could be in serious trouble.
The problem raised was that the target doesn't forget any of the events that happened during the spell's effect once the spell has worn off so they could quickly guess they were the victim of some kind of enchantment (using the word in the general magic sense, not to imply the target is aware of the enchantment school of magic) if they felt they had no reason to act friendly towards the caster.
Of course, as stated - if they were drunk they might quickly pass off the encounter as a symptom of the drink - assuming there were other gaps in the memory resulting from intoxication. However, if they weren't drunk their behaviour would probably seem strange to themselves.
Granted, having suspiscions doesn't directly equate to having full knowledge of who-did-what-to-whom-and-how.
The main questions raised during the arguements were:
''If the target passes their saving throw are they likely to punch me for 'trying something', even if they don't know exactly what was being tried.''
It still causes arguements.. >_<
| AdAstraGames |
This happened in our game last week.
My Barbarian got hit with a Charm Person spell. And rolled a successful save - the command given was "Protect me!"
Does the person who CASTS a Charm Person spell know the target successfully saved, if their actions follow the command given?
Said Barbarian shouted "Yes, my Mistress!" And ran to her side. And when she started casting another spell, raged, swung with the Falchion and a 24 Strength + Power Attack and got a crit.
Useful note: Most 5th level bards are unable to make the Concentration check required from eating 46 damage...
IconoclasticScream
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Does the person who CASTS a Charm Person spell know the target successfully saved, if their actions follow the command given?
From the Core Rules p. 216-217:
"Likewise, if a creature’s saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells."
LazarX
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This happened in our game last week.
My Barbarian got hit with a Charm Person spell. And rolled a successful save - the command given was "Protect me!"
Does the person who CASTS a Charm Person spell know the target successfully saved, if their actions follow the command given?
Said Barbarian shouted "Yes, my Mistress!" And ran to her side. And when she started casting another spell, raged, swung with the Falchion and a 24 Strength + Power Attack and got a crit.
Useful note: Most 5th level bards are unable to make the Concentration check required from eating 46 damage...
It would basically be a Bluff vs. Sense Motive check which I'd have the DM roll. Faking out a mind controller is a classic story move which I see no reason to remove the total possibility of from the game.
Garden Tool
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AdAstraGames wrote:It would basically be a Bluff vs. Sense Motive check which I'd have the DM roll. Faking out a mind controller is a classic story move which I see no reason to remove the total possibility of from the game.This happened in our game last week.
My Barbarian got hit with a Charm Person spell. And rolled a successful save - the command given was "Protect me!"
Does the person who CASTS a Charm Person spell know the target successfully saved, if their actions follow the command given?
Said Barbarian shouted "Yes, my Mistress!" And ran to her side. And when she started casting another spell, raged, swung with the Falchion and a 24 Strength + Power Attack and got a crit.
Useful note: Most 5th level bards are unable to make the Concentration check required from eating 46 damage...
Unfortunately, the rules do not support it. If you cast a targeted spell and your target makes it's save, you are automatically aware of it.