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How viable is a Druid who ops to ditch the Animal Companion in favor of a Clerical Domain in the long run? The loss of the damage/spell link from a Companion seem rather harsh, but does the Domain ability and bonus spells really make up for the trade off in your opinion?
I'm just trying to work the math out in my head for future potential Druid builds.
(The concept of a Fire Druid facinates me.)
Treantmonk's Guide to Druids, especially the Mystic should be helpful.
-- david
Papa.DRB
Take the weather domain!
Check out sanstree the druid!
How viable is a Druid who ops to ditch the Animal Companion in favor of a Clerical Domain in the long run? The loss of the damage/spell link from a Companion seem rather harsh, but does the Domain ability and bonus spells really make up for the trade off in your opinion?
I'm just trying to work the math out in my head for future potential Druid builds.
(The concept of a Fire Druid facinates me.)
I'm playing such a character right now. Honestly, I can't be a big help, because we're still at low levels (and circumstances are such that so far I've never played past level 4), but I'll tell you what I can:
-We used 25 point buy to create our characters, and I had a hard time choosing between two builds. One would have given me 18 WIS and more well-rounded stats, the other makes me somewhat fragile, but gets me a 20 WIS. One of my fellow PCs (and our some-time GM) is a bit of a powergamer and convinced me to buy the highest WIS possible (after racial modifiers). I hope I don't die as a result of this decision, but I really enjoy the *two* bonus castings, plus domain spell, that I got at first level. That has made my initial lack of resources a little more bearable. (It's pretty awesome; the chart shows you getting just 1 first level spell per day, but you can boost it all the way to four with a high WIS and a domain!)
-From what I can see when I look at the Druid spell list, I expect this character to get better and better. It's the lower levels that have been a little bit painful. You have great first level spells, but even if you're out in the woods, sometimes they just don't come up, and spontaneous summoning has yet to become viable as a replacement. There have definitely been encounters where my preps just wouldn't have helped anybody, so I spent the rounds using my tiny buff-orisons and my first level weather-domain power. I've been rolling comically low damage on that domain power, so it often makes me feel a little silly (especially next to our juggernaut of a barbarian) - but on the other hand, it's not just damage, it's a debuff. Who knows how many times -2 to attack has prevented that barbarian from having his head taken off his shoulders?)
-There were a couple of sessions where I went home afterwards feeling I'd been a bit useless in combat, but you know what has been incredibly cheering? My skills! Druid skills are outta sight. You get four+INT ranks/level, which is fairly generous, and the extra bonuses to nature knowledge and survival mean that I've been a big help to our wandering-around-in-the-wilderness Kingmaker campaign. But what I looove about Druid class skills is that they tend to make use of my best modifiers, too - unlike, say, Cleric class skills. (Right now, I am making a cleric as a back-up character, but when I looked at the class skills I was like, 'Augh! Noooo!' Almost nothing would couple with my WIS mod, no perception, and none of the DEX-based skills I was hoping would go with this particular build). With my current character, however - only at level 2 - when I make a bad perception roll, I'm like, 'Awww, I only made it into the teens!' It's been great for surprise rounds and discovering hidden features of the landscape.
-Two reasons I think this character has been so satisfying, even if I am really looking forward to higher levels: wilderness exploration campaign (Kingmaker) + my group *really* needs a support caster. We have a wizard, but so far it looks like he wants to use his wizardry to super-buff himself, then shoot people with arrows. We have a bard, but his character also yearns for melee. Would a beastly animal companion/melee druid combo be more powerful than my character? Maybe. But debuffing/battlefield control is a huge vacuum in my group so far, and a domain druid fits well in that niche. If I had made this same character for our Council of Thieves group - which had casters of all stripes coming out the wazoo, and no plants to speak of - I'd be weeping right now.
Anyway, probably you know a lot of this already. I just thought I'd try to help in any way I could. :o)
It can definately be viable, but what it means is you are focusing on your casting instead of combat. Your spells are your weapon, and generally wild shape becomes more utilitarion then to get into the thick of things and claw enemies to death. It also means you are more vulnerable at lower levels, but a druid still has a fairly effective low level spell list, and it gets better as you level up.
@but i'm just a gnome - why do you feel the first level summon natures ally isnt viable? I have always found summons to be great additions in any combat, and they can often prove useful out of combat as well.
+1 Kolo
You are talking about building a spellcaster and never forget he is a spellcaster!
I took the weather domain for the storm burst
does 1d6 subdual damage and gives a -2 to the opponents attack rolls for the next turn....And it is a ranged touch attack. At first level with an 18 stat got 7/per day.....
Lets you stand behind the fighter w/tower shield
and contribute....
Subdual damage is a good way around orc ferocity as well....
After nearing second level I love the storm burst and think it is the best Druid domain....
It can definately be viable, but what it means is you are focusing on your casting instead of combat. Your spells are your weapon, and generally wild shape becomes more utilitarion then to get into the thick of things and claw enemies to death. It also means you are more vulnerable at lower levels, but a druid still has a fairly effective low level spell list, and it gets better as you level up.
@but i'm just a gnome - why do you feel the first level summon natures ally isnt viable? I have always found summons to be great additions in any combat, and they can often prove useful out of combat as well.
Oh, whoops. Not the first level spell, the spell at first level - as a first level character. On account of the duration. I haven't done it yet, but I'd consider swapping a spell for SNA now that I'm second level. And I'll definitely be summoning by the time I'm a third level character, at which point I'll also have Augment Summoning, which will make it even more fun!
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I haven't done it yet, but I'd consider swapping a spell for SNA now that I'm second level.
You don't have to memorize summons as a druid. You can turn any memorized spell (such as that entangle before you realize you're in a building the whole fight) into a summon of the appropriate level, in the same way clerics can turn spells into healing (or harming for negative)
I haven't done it yet, but I'd consider swapping a spell for SNA now that I'm second level.You don't have to memorize summons as a druid. You can turn any memorized spell (such as that entangle before you realize you're in a building the whole fight) into a summon of the appropriate level, in the same way clerics can turn spells into healing (or harming for negative)
Yeah, that's what I meant - swapping a prepared spell for a spontaneous casting of SNA.
Excluding of course a domain spell slot, that can not be converted to SNA!
We have a fire druid in our RotRL campaign right now. He's extremely powerful. Spends the majority of his time flying around as an air elemental, blasting things from the sky. (He took one level of Sorc:Dragon(Red) to optimize even further, but he'd still be awesome without it.)
With buffs, his AC eclipses the party's tank, and his strike-and-run tactics makes him (situationally) more powerful than the party's main artillary.
Druids w/ domains are definately worth giving up the companion for.
I'm playing a companion-less druid currently, and while I am slightly outside the rules with the Travel domain I'm finding it vastly more useful than having a companion. I'm also benefiting from a house-rule that gives me a second domain, but so far in almost two full levels I've utilized that second domain once.
It's the option I took for an Arcane Hierophant - and it works pretty well, although I will have to add that the AH role is very much one of spell-casting over everything else.
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2. There's a Paizo PrC 'diabolist' which if it fits a PC can be entertaining. It could fit the right kind of LN druid that went with a domain rather than a companion.
Don't forget that Diabolists are damned (to Hell) souls. No resurrection, reincarnation , or raise dead. I think it'd be up to the DM whether breath of life would work. I just want to put that out there.
I enjoy the domain option, an animal companion can be nice, but I dislike spotlighting the brutal animal companion rather than the character itself.
The domains also make for interesting flavor choices, a druid with a falcon is more likely to take the animal domain and get a slightly less buff aniamal companion but some additional stuff to back up his character in other ways.
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Well, I can't help that say taking the Plant Domain might give some excellent buffs for a Druid using their Wild Shape. Say as a self buffing machine. But ya, it was pretty obvious from the guide and the options that going Domain is a caster choice. More spells, more options.
I am sorry but it seems that you can not buff yourself with growth while wild shaped. The following link shows the logic:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o1oh?Plant-Domain-Growth-Enlarge-and-WildShape #1
But this can be up to your Game Master as whether he will allow it or not. There are other things you can do like the Feats: Planar Wild Shape, Powerful Wild Shape, Improved Unarmed Strike, Shaping Focus(if you multiclass), Power Attack, etc. Spells you can add: Magic Fang for +1 on one attack, Greater Magic Fang for +1 per 4 levels of druid on one attack or +1 on all attacks. You also get bigger sizes as you level up.
couple of ideas for you:
Urban Druid - at 6th you get 1000 Faces, couple that with either some choice class skills via traits or a level of rogue / Bard, and you have a pure master of disguise.
Growth Domain + Shillelagh = thump stick
In RoW, we have a Menhir Savant with the arctic domain, it's so not like a druid, it's not a druid.
it's kinda like the inquisitor of nature.
he's an elf, he uses bow a lot.
hasnt gotten wild shape yet.
Its perfectly viable. I don't know how many druids you've seen in action, but some animal companions don't really carry its weight in the party. You still have your spells and wild shape, and those are your bread and butter.
Viable? The *druid*?
So you would only be a full caster who could shapeshift and buff to become a frontline fighter in a pinch?
The question isn't "is the Druid viable." It's "what flavor of awesome sauce would you like?" ;)
I'm always a fan of the Tempest druid. It's basically a domain-focused archetype for druids from Ultimate Magic. Instead of spontaneous SNAs, you can spontaneously cast one of your domain spells, and at level nine you can take a second domain.
why havenyt i seen this before?
FIrst, Best Race Ever = Gnome.
That said, Domain spells can be amazing, and whether or not they are worth the trade is going to depend on what you trade the Animal Companion for. Also know where you end.
Having amazing level 16, 18, 20 powers and spells is useless if your game ends at level 1-15.
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I'm always a fan of the Tempest druid. It's basically a domain-focused archetype for druids from Ultimate Magic. Instead of spontaneous SNAs, you can spontaneously cast one of your domain spells, and at level nine you can take a second domain.why havenyt i seen this before?
It's pretty easy to miss. It's kind of hidden with the Shaman archetypes right at the end, but it's a whole lot of fun. It's got some great flavorful abilities too, like being less affected by wind and mist.
Fire Domain has no overlap of the subtypes, so Smoke and Ash gives you quite a few nice spells and abilities.
You don't have to choose, though. Take Animal (or Feather subdomain, specifically, it's just plain better) domain and you'll get your companion back at 4th level, just a bit weaker, which Boon Companion feat can fix. So, in the long run, you trade a feat for an extra spell slot at each level and domain powers. Pretty good trade, IMO. Just have to pay for it up front at the low levels.
It's pretty easy to miss. It's kind of hidden with the Shaman archetypes right at the end, but it's a whole lot of fun. It's got some great flavorful abilities too, like being less affected by wind and mist.I'm always a fan of the Tempest druid. It's basically a domain-focused archetype for druids from Ultimate Magic. Instead of spontaneous SNAs, you can spontaneously cast one of your domain spells, and at level nine you can take a second domain.why havenyt i seen this before?
Seriously i swear its not there!
Are we talking about STORM druid?