Please help.... Ranger / paladin

[KenderKin]

I am currently working on an idea of a half-orc ranger (looking at switch hitter build) ie uses both one-big weapon and archery....

Not looking for the to level 20 build, just playable and fun at low levels.

But wanted to stat the PC for taking a level or two in paladin....

So if someone could help with the point buys and other information that would help a great deal.

10 point buy
15 point buy
20 point buy
25 point buy

Is there a point buy minimum to make the PC work?

Starting feat
Quick draw
(love intimidating prowess but really seem to need quickdraw for this build)

I will add as this takes shape.

Starting gear
studded leather armor
Falchion
Shortbow
quiver of arrows

Trait suggestions also welcome...

Actually any suggestions welcome (except the this is a bad idea)

I am at the right place to get the best and brightest ideas!

[Thazar]

Well, the character will certainly be fairly unique. :)

As far as stats go, if it is point build the more the better. You will want STR to be your main and then equal parts DEX, CON, WIS, and CHA. This build is going to take a lot ability points to make full use of a two handed weapon plus ranger and paladin class features.

Since you are getting the archer feats from Ranger you can do with a lower dexterity. Feats to consider early are the obvious ones of power attack and deadly aim. Save the bow feats for your ranger bonuses that way you can bypass the prereqs. Boon companion is also a good feat to consider once you hit ranger level 4.

With a 20 Point buy this would work.

STR 18
DEX 14
CON 12
INT 8
WIS 13
CHA 12

With a 25 point buy I would use this bump the WIS and CHA to 14... or put the INT back to 10 and leave one of them at 13.

Anything below a 20 point build you may as well put everything but INT as close to 14 as you can with a focus on STR being a little bit higher.

[Anonymous Visitor 163 576]

I agree that STR comes first. You'll also need CON/DEX. The others are not as important for a switch hitter. You won't have access to much in the way of spells, and ultimately, something has to give.

So, how important are...Ranger spells, Paladin spells, good skills, good saves, lay on hands...to your idea?

If you build carefully, you'll have a great character. If you try to everything well, you'll be spread a bit thin.

Finally, there are 3.5 feats that lets you combine some of the features of these classes. Maybe 'devoted hunter' or something like that. You can get bonus to smiting favored enemies, and combine an animal companion with a paladin's mount.

[KenderKin]

I am thinking the spells will be non-existant I was thinking to top out around pally5/Ranger5.

Of the paladin abilities smite to either melee or ranged attacks, and Lay on hands is a priority for the half-orc (mercy will be fatigue)

Ranger emphasis will be archery feats.

Also the idea appeals for several reasons.

Plus I am not giving up any BAB or Hit points......

I had been playing a paladin in a game and recently started a ranger then My mind started to wonder about actually planning to play this....

[stuart haffenden]

If you take levels in Pally and then take levels in something else you would lose your Pally abilities, period. Being a Pally is a calling from your God [which God would that be, you fail to mention...], you can't mix and match that calling with other classes.

That's my take, in my games. If you want to play it differently, go for it.

[Anonymous Visitor 163 576]

KenderKin wrote:

I am thinking the spells will be non-existant I was thinking to top out around pally5/Ranger5.

Ok, so you're not using stats to cast spells. I'd aim for 16 STR, 14 Con and Dex. See what's left for points, and split between Wis and Cha. If you can get to a 12 Wis and a 14 Cha, you'll be doing well.

Boost Str and Cha with items and levelling.

If you are more of an archer, you can survive with a 12 Con. Make sure your favored class bonus goes into HP.
---------------------------------------------------------
In part, this is a no-brainer. You'll have full BAB, good hit points.
Go fight stuff. While fighters have more feats, you'll have much better saving throws, and a better skill list.

Something about this makes me think mounted combat (lance, sword, bow).
---------------------------------------------------------
Skills are a bit of an issue, because you'll have WAY more class skills than skill points. You'll have to decide what you're focusing on, and stick with it. Being poor at everything does not a hero make.

[KenderKin]

I am thinking something like focusing the skills on

profession (scout)
sense motive
perception
stealth
Knowledge (geography)

Making him like a forward observer of enemy forces, supplies, etc

Yes SH it used to be that way.....
This concept is about a natural course for the character altered by story and roleplaying for reasons.

[MerrikCale]

KenderKin wrote:

(looking at switch hitter build)

anyone else chuckled at that?

or am I the only juvenile delinquent?

[Dragonchess Player]

I'd go with the following:

10-point buy
14 Str, 15 Dex (13 +2 race), 12 Con, 8 Int, 10 Wis, 12 Cha

15-point buy
16 Str (14 +2 race), 15 Dex, 12 Con, 8 Int, 12 Wis, 13 Cha

20-point buy
16 Str (14 +2 race), 15 Dex, 14 Con, 8 Int, 12 Wis, 14 Cha

25-point buy
18 Str (16 +2 race), 15 Dex, 14 Con, 8 Int, 12 Wis, 14 Cha

The big reason to go with 15 Dex? Orc Double Axe. It's a double weapon, which means it can be used as "one big weapon" or with Two-Weapon Fighting and it's a martial weapon for half-orcs. Also, because of the way Smite Evil works in Pathfinder, a Two-Weapon Fighting paladin can really dish out damage, especially when stacked on top of Favored Enemy bonuses (and a dragon, evil outsider, or undead). A good Dex makes you effective at ranged combat, as well. Advancements will mainly be in Str, with possible bumps in Dex and Cha to get a higher modifier; invest in a headband of wisdom +2 (and later +4 for the 10-point buy version) for all ranger spell levels.

Start with ranger (you'll want the skills, badly) for two levels to pick up the first Combat Style feat. Then switch to paladin for three levels for Smite Evil, Divine Grace, Aura of Courage, and Divine Health. After that, go back to ranger levels; Channel Positive Energy and Divine Bond are not "must haves" IMO.

Progression (up to ranger 10/paladin 3):
R1- Two-Weapon Fighting
R2- Double Slice*
P1- Point Blank Shot
P3- Rapid Shot
R3- Endurance
R4- Power Attack
R6- Deadly Aim, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting*
R8- Precise Shot or Vital Strike
R10- Improved Precise Shot or Improved Vital Strike, Two-Weapon Rend*

*-Combat Style bonus feat

[KenderKin]

Point buys look really good!

I had not looked at the build with the orc double axe...

Was thinking archery from ranger and critical feat up to blinding critical with the fachion.

I will look at your suggestionns while leveling the character.

[DeathQuaker]

I am not an optimizer, but some thoughts:

DragonChess Player's idea of TWFing with orc double axe is good, flavorful, and fun.

I would go further to make a radical proposal to emphasize Dex over Str, and that while you want a decent Str (I'd say around 14), that it should not be your priority to boost. You're getting your damage from hitting a lot, from having a weapon with good damage dice, and with your smites and favored enemies where appropriate. When Str seems lacking at higher levels, just boost it with an item.

Dex IMHO would be far more important--to qualify for TWF and ITWF as well as to have as high an AC as possible in light or medium armor, since you're playing a ranger. Boosting your reflex save won't hurt either (and I would take Ranger at least to level 9 if you can to get Evasion). CAVEAT: Of course, if you're taking TWF as your combat style feat, you don't need the boosted dex, but I'd still want it for AC.

Again, I am not saying to dump Str (you want a good to-hit bonus) but that I wouldn't necessarily make it my priority. I would do a good Charisma for Divine Grace and to have fun with Intimidation. I would also take at least a decent Wis for boosting your perception and will saves, as well as maybe being able to cast a ranger spell or two at higher levels.

Again, I am not an optimizer, and I'm sure any number of people are ready to jump on and say why I'm crazy. And they can go right ahead.

Your falchion idea is cool, but I find if you want to do a crit build, better to go with fighter for the bonus feats, IMHO. (but hey, if you really like the falchion, do it -- it's a great weapon in anyone's hands)

My 20 point buy would be 14 Str, 16 Dex (14 w/ +2 from Racial bonus), Con 12, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 14. You could dump Int for higher ability scores elsewhere, but my personal predilection is not to penalize skill points, particularly not for a class like a ranger. Raise Dex for the next few levels, throwing in a bump to Wis along the way somewhere.

I'd see the character at 12th level being Ranger 9 Paladin 3, with favored enemies in undead and evil outsiders. A great Hunter-of-Evil kind of character.

Anyway, that's probably not even worth 2 cents, but that's 1 cent at least, and whatever you do, I hope it works out well. Have fun!

[Thalin]

20 point

Str: 19 (13)
Int: 7 (gain 4)
Wis: 7 (gain 4)
Dex: 14 (5 point)
Con: 10 (yuck)
Chr: 16 (10 point)

10 point: cha 14, str 17, con 11
15 point: cha 14
25 point: con 14

Can work; the classes really don't compliment each other though...

[stuart haffenden]

KenderKin wrote:

Yes SH it used to be that way.....
This concept is about a natural course for the character altered by story and roleplaying for reasons.

Your god will strike you down for even considering being a grubby ranger!

[Kolokotroni]

stuart haffenden wrote:

If you take levels in Pally and then take levels in something else you would lose your Pally abilities, period. Being a Pally is a calling from your God [which God would that be, you fail to mention...], you can't mix and match that calling with other classes.

That's my take, in my games. If you want to play it differently, go for it.

If that is your house rule, fair enough, but there is literally nothing in the game rules that suggests this. Why exactly is being called by your god a restriction on multiclassing? Do your gods have issues if their servants also are good at woodsmanship, or learn arcane magic? Does that cause them all to view their worshipers with disfavor? Strange campaign world if you ask me.

[KenderKin]

Ok finally made this PC

Would like some input on next level…

I am really torn between adding ranger, paladin, or rogue!

Info

Spoiler:

Half-orc
Ranger 2 / Paladin 2

Rolled stats not point buys

Str 17
Dex 15
Con 13
Int 10
Wis 13
Cha 14

Appearance

Spoiler:

Like a half-orc ranger is expected to look including little concern for too much grooming, although takes care of his equipment, armor and weapons. hair often braided in rough dreadlocks.

Racial abilities

Spoiler:

Darkvision: Half-orcs can see in the dark up to 60 feet.

Intimidating: Half-orcs receive a +2 racial bonus on Intimidate skill checks due to their fearsome nature.

Orc Blood: Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race.

Orc Ferocity: Once per day, when a half-orc is brought below 0 hit points but not killed, he can fight on for one more round as if disabled. At the end of his next turn, unless brought to above 0 hit points, he immediately falls unconscious and begins dying.

Weapon Familiarity: Half-orcs are proficient with greataxes and falchions and treat any weapon with the word “orc” in its name as a martial weapon.

Languages: Half-orcs begin play speaking Common and Orc. Half-orcs with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Abyssal, Draconic, Giant, Gnoll, and Goblin.

Paladin abilities

Spoiler:

Aura of Good (Ex)
The power of a paladin's aura of good (see the detect good spell) is equal to her paladin level.

Detect Evil (Sp)
At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell. A paladin can, as a move action, concentrate on a single item or individual within 60 feet and determine if it is evil, learning the strength of its aura as if having studied it for 3 rounds. While focusing on one individual or object, the paladin does not detect evil in any other object or individual within range.

Smite Evil (Su)
Once per day, a paladin can call out to the powers of good to aid her in her struggle against evil. As a swift action, the paladin chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is evil, the paladin adds her Cha bonus (if any) to her attack rolls and adds her paladin level to all damage rolls made against the target of her smite. If the target of smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the paladin possesses. Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.

In addition, while smite evil is in effect, the paladin gains a deflection bonus equal to her Charisma modifier (if any) to her AC against attacks made by the target of the smite. If the paladin targets a creature that is not evil, the smite is wasted with no effect.

The smite evil effect remains until the target of the smite is dead or the next time the paladin rests and regains her uses of this ability. At 4th level, and at every three levels thereafter, the paladin may smite evil one additional time per day, as indicated on Table: Paladin, to a maximum of seven times per day at 19th level.

Divine Grace (Su)
bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all Saving Throws.

Lay On Hands (Su) (3/day) (1d6)

Beginning at 2nd level, a paladin can heal wounds (her own or those of others) by touch. Each day she can use this ability a number of times equal to 1/2 her paladin level plus her Charisma modifier. With one use of this ability, a paladin can heal 1d6 hit points of damage for every two paladin levels she possesses. Using this ability is a standard action, unless the paladin targets herself, in which case it is a swift action. Despite the name of this ability, a paladin only needs one free hand to use this ability.

Alternatively, a paladin can use this healing power to deal damage to undead creatures, dealing 1d6 points of damage for every two levels the paladin possesses. Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. Undead do not receive a saving throw against this damage.

Ranger (favored class)

Spoiler:

Favored Enemy (Ex)
Humanoid (human)

At 1st level, a ranger selects a creature type from the ranger favored enemies table. He gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Knowledge, Perception, Sense Motive, and Survival checks against creatures of his selected type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon attack and damage rolls against them. A ranger may make Knowledge skill checks untrained when attempting to identify these creatures.

Track (Ex)
A ranger adds half his level (minimum 1) to Survival skill checks made to follow or identify tracks.

Wild Empathy (Ex)

A ranger can improve the initial attitude of an animal. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check to improve the attitude of a person (see Using Skills). The ranger rolls 1d20 and adds his ranger level and his Charisma bonus to determine the wild empathy check result. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly.

To use wild empathy, the ranger and the animal must be within 30 feet of one another under normal visibility conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute, but, as with influencing people, it might take more or less time.

The ranger can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but he takes a –4 penalty on the check.

Combat Style Feat (Ex)
At 2nd level, a ranger must select one of two combat styles to pursue: archery or two-weapon combat. The ranger's expertise manifests in the form of bonus feats at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level. He can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites.

Archery

If the ranger selects archery, he can choose from the following list whenever he gains a combat style feat: Far Shot, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Rapid Shot.

Rapid shot

Initiative +2

speed 30

Combat

Spoiler:

Hit points 32

Armor Class 17

Mithral Shirt
Aura no aura (nonmagical); CL —
Slot armor; Price 1,100 gp; Weight 10 lbs.
DESCRIPTION
This extremely light chain shirt is made of very fine mithral links. The armor has an arcane spell failure chance of 10%, a maximum Dexterity bonus of +6, and no armor check penalty. It is considered light armor. armor bonus +4...

Falchion (masterwork)
attack bonus +8
Damage 1d6+5 2d4+5
Critical 18–20/x2
8 lbs. S

Composite Longbow (+3 str)
attack bonus +6
damage 1d6+4 1d8+4 (masterwork arrows)
damage 1d6+3 1d8+3 (cold iron & sleep)
critical *3
range 110 ft.

Arrows
masterwork 40
cold iron 15
Sleep Arrow 5

Aura faint enchantment; CL 5th Slot none; Price 132 gp; Weight 1/10 lb.
This +1 arrow is painted white and has white fletching. If it strikes a foe so that it would normally deal damage, it instead bursts into magical energy that deals nonlethal damage (in the same amount as would lethal damage) and forces the target to make a DC 11 Will save or fall asleep.

Pilum 2

saves
Fortitude 9
Reflex 7
Will 6

feats
1. Quickdraw (1st)

Spoiler:

You can draw weapons faster than most.

Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1.

Benefit: You can draw a weapon as a free action instead of as a move action. You can draw a hidden weapon (see the Sleight of Hand skill) as a move action.

A character who has selected this feat may throw weapons at his full normal rate of attacks (much like a character with a bow).

Alchemical items, potions, scrolls, and wands cannot be drawn quickly using this feat.

Normal: Without this feat, you may draw a weapon as a move action, or (if your base attack bonus is +1 or higher) as a free action as part of movement. Without this feat, you can draw a hidden weapon as a standard action.

Rapid shot (archery style)

Spoiler:

Rapid Shot (Combat)
You can make an additional ranged attack.

Prerequisites: Dex 13, Point-Blank Shot.

Benefit: When making a full-attack action with a ranged weapon, you can fire one additional time this round. All of your attack rolls take a –2 penalty when using Rapid Shot.

Run

Spoiler:

You are swift of foot.

Benefit: When running, you move five times your normal speed (if wearing medium, light, or no armor and carrying no more than a medium load) or four times your speed (if wearing heavy armor or carrying a heavy load). If you make a jump after a running start (see the Acrobatics skill description), you gain a +4 bonus on your Acrobatics check. While running, you retain your Dexterity bonus to your Armor Class.

Normal: You move four times your speed while running (if wearing medium, light, or no armor and carrying no more than a medium load) or three times your speed (if wearing heavy armor or carrying a heavy load), and you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC.

Skills

Spoiler:

Acrobatics
Appraise
Bluff
Climb 8 (+3 str, +2 ranks, +3 class)
Craft
Diplomacy
Disable device
Disguise
Fly
Handle animal 6 (+2 cha, +1 rank, +3 class)
Heal 6 (+1 wis, +2ranks, +3 class)
Intimidate 9 (+2 cha, +2 ranks, +3 class, +2 race)
Knowledge (arcane)
knowledge (dungeoneering)
knowledge (engineering)
knowledge (geography)
knowledge (history)
knowledge (local)
knowledge (nature) 4
knowledge (nobility)
knowledge (planes)
knowledge (religion)
Linguistics
Perception 7 (+1 wis, +3 ranks, +3 class)
Perform
Perform
Profession
Ride
Sense Motive 5 (+1 wis, +1 rank, +3 class)
Sleight of hand
Spellcraft 4 (+0int, +1 rank, +3 class)
Stealth 7 (+2 dex, +2 ranks, +3 class)
Survival 6 (+1 wis, +2 ranks, +3 class)
Swim 7 (+3 str, +1 rank, +3 class)
Use magic device

Equipment

Spoiler:

adventurers sash
Flint & steel
Scroll case
Winter blanket
Waterskin (empty)
Fish hooks (10)
Rations (2 days)
Whetstone
Whistle
50 CP
30 SP
50 GP

magic items

Spoiler:

Efficient Quiver
Aura moderate conjuration; CL 9th

Slot —; Price 1,800 gp; Weight 2 lbs.

DESCRIPTION
This appears to be a typical arrow container capable of holding about 20 arrows. It has three distinct portions, each with a nondimensional space allowing it to store far more than would normally be possible. The first and smallest one can contain up to 60 objects of the same general size and shape as an arrow. The second slightly longer compartment holds up to 18 objects of the same general size and shape as a javelin. The third and longest portion of the case contains as many as 6 objects of the same general size and shape as a bow (spears, staffs, or the like). Once the owner has filled it, the quiver can quickly produce any item she wishes that is within the quiver, as if from a regular quiver or scabbard. The efficient quiver weighs the same no matter what's placed inside it.

traits

Spoiler:

Accelerated Drinker "Praise Cayden Cailean"

You know how to drink a potion efficiently, such as by not using your hands, tossing it in the air and catching it in your mouth, or opening it with your teeth.
Benefit: You may drink a potion as a move action instead of a standard action as long as you start your turn with the potion in your hand.

Improvisational Equipment
You have an uncanny knack for turning equipment to new and unexpected uses.

Benefit: When using an item for anything other than its intended purpose—such as using a crowbar as a grappling hook or an old shirt to bandage a deadly wound—reduce the improvisation penalty by 2. This does not apply to improvised weapon penalties. Your GM may rule that some things are just not suitable for use in certain ways; for example, gluing a dead orc’s face to your own face won’t help you disguise yourself as an orc.

Background

Spoiler:

Snafu was originally a ranger in the outskirts of civilization working with local farmsteads and other groups offering protection to small hamlets beyond the notice of the king and the court. In a way becoming a quixotic paladin in dealing honestly in all circumstances...

The outbreak of war and the lack of seasoned commanders for the king's army led to a search for capable leaders. Eventually Snafu trained with the king's men. Agreed to serve the king during the war and once the war was over an independent charter to combat evil and have asylum in the king's realm......

Pilum

Spoiler:

This tip of this heavy javelin is designed to break off and embed itself into a shield once it reaches its target.

Benefit: Like ammunition, a thrown pilum that hits its target is destroyed. If you hit an shield-using opponent with a pilum, he loses the AC bonus from that shield until he takes a standard action to pry out the remnants of the pilum.

5 gp 1d6 1d8 x2 20 ft. 4 lbs. P

Source Adventurer's Armory

[Evil Genius Prime]

Kolokotroni wrote:

stuart haffenden wrote:

If you take levels in Pally and then take levels in something else you would lose your Pally abilities, period. Being a Pally is a calling from your God [which God would that be, you fail to mention...], you can't mix and match that calling with other classes.

That's my take, in my games. If you want to play it differently, go for it.

If that is your house rule, fair enough, but there is literally nothing in the game rules that suggests this. Why exactly is being called by your god a restriction on multiclassing? Do your gods have issues if their servants also are good at woodsmanship, or learn arcane magic? Does that cause them all to view their worshipers with disfavor? Strange campaign world if you ask me.

Exactly. Are you speaking of your own campaign world, stuart ? Because, RAW, nothing prevents a Paladin from multi-classing. They just have to uphold the code, and not do evil acts.

[Name Violation]

if you can, take the feat from 3.5 from complete adventurer (i think) it lets pally and ranger levels stack for a bunch of things and (and let pallys go back to pally after multi-classing with ranger, but thats moot now)

[KenderKin]

I am trying to stick to PF RAW and avoid the splat-books!

So any suggestions flavor or otherwise would be appreciated.....

[stuart haffenden]

Evil Genius Prime wrote:

Exactly. Are you speaking of your own campaign world, stuart ? Because, RAW, nothing prevents a Paladin from multi-classing. They just have to uphold the code, and not do evil acts.

It's not about RAW, it's about interpretation, and I just don't see Paladins sharing their levels with other classes. Cleric can do it but not Paladins imo. Paladins are single-minded, evil smiting beacons of the purest light straight from their Gods. To me, that just doesn't merge with learning to follow tracks etc. Will you be allowing your Paladin/Ranger to pick any favoured classes? before they take Undead, Dragon & Evil Outsiders first? I hope not. Let not forget that the OP didn't mention any Gods in the original post [or his full blown spoiler heavy end product!] so it's obviously an minor inconvienence having to actually pick one! Shouldn't that be one of your first considerations...? This is munchkin-esk teritory... "I want that bonus to my saves", rather than "I want to be a paladin"

The Crusading Knights of old didn't take time off to learn about berry picking or how nice forests are; they just crusaded away killing everything they saw as evil [which obviously would have been anyone that didn't follow their religion back then].

Paladins are the only non-Prestige class Prestige class in my games. If you take a Prestige class, that's it, you keep taking it until you have taken all the available levels before you can take levels anywhere else. It's a commitment that you have specifically qualified for, applied for and have been accepted in. You can't go round cherry picking abilities here, you role-play your character, and if that character wants to become a Paladin then why, other than for optimization reasons, would you want to be anything else? Being a shining beacon of good isn't a part time job you know! and certainly not something you'd dilute with track finding and smiling at animals!!

I already know you're not going to agree with me on this, and that is fine. Everyone’s game is different. I'm not saying you're wrong; we just have different opinions :)

[Moro]

stuart haffenden wrote:

Evil Genius Prime wrote:

Exactly. Are you speaking of your own campaign world, stuart ? Because, RAW, nothing prevents a Paladin from multi-classing. They just have to uphold the code, and not do evil acts.

It's not about RAW, it's about interpretation, and I just don't see Paladins sharing their levels with other classes. Cleric can do it but not Paladins imo. Paladins are single-minded, evil smiting beacons of the purest light straight from their Gods. To me, that just doesn't merge with learning to follow tracks etc. Will you be allowing your Paladin/Ranger to pick any favoured classes? before they take Undead, Dragon & Evil Outsiders first? I hope not. Let not forget that the OP didn't mention any Gods in the original post so it's obviously an minor inconvienence having to actually pick one! Shouldn't that be one of your first considerations...? This is munchkin-esk teritory... "I want that bonus to my saves", rather than "I want to be a paladin"

The Crusading Knights of old didn't take time off to learn about berry picking or how nice forests are; they just crusaded away killing everything they saw as evil [which obviously would have been anyone that didn't follow their religion back then].

Paladins are the only non-Prestige class Prestige class in my games. If you take a Prestige class, that's it, you keep taking it until you have taken all the available levels before you can take levels anywhere else. It's a commitment that you have specifically qualified for, applied for and have been accepted in. You can't go round cherry picking abilities here, you role-play your character, and if that character wants to become a Paladin then why, other than for optimization reasons, would you want to be anything else? Being a shining beacon of good isn't a part time job you know! and certainly not something you'd dilute with track finding and smiling at animals!!

I already know you're not going to agree with me on this, and that is fine. Everyone’s game is different. I'm not...

I'm curious as to how you would handle a character that was a Paladin of say...Erastil?

[KenderKin]

That is some dumb sh%@ IMO!

This was not an opinion thread obout paladins have to be lawful stupid and "single minded" and devoted...

It is funny anyone would say the paladins devotion to a god is more than the clerics devotion, thus clerics can multiclass but not paladins, boy is that backwards, IMO.....

Lets see why that is really "single minded"
Clerics channel energy at first level
Paladins do not channel energy till 4th level

Where does that energy come from?

Clerics cast spells at first level
Paladins do not till 4th level

Where do the spells come from?

Please tell me how else you view the paladin and LG alignment or post it in one of the many existing threads on that subject....

Oh and prepare to be smited Evil Doer!

[Name Violation]

for the record, the sound of a shotgun c0cking followed by "SMIIIIIITE!!!!!!!!" invokes fear, even if you're good

[Evil Genius Prime]

stuart haffenden wrote:

Evil Genius Prime wrote:

Exactly. Are you speaking of your own campaign world, stuart ? Because, RAW, nothing prevents a Paladin from multi-classing. They just have to uphold the code, and not do evil acts.

It's not about RAW, it's about interpretation, and I just don't see Paladins sharing their levels with other classes. Cleric can do it but not Paladins imo. Paladins are single-minded, evil smiting beacons of the purest light straight from their Gods. To me, that just doesn't merge with learning to follow tracks etc. Will you be allowing your Paladin/Ranger to pick any favoured classes? before they take Undead, Dragon & Evil Outsiders first? I hope not. Let not forget that the OP didn't mention any Gods in the original post [or his full blown spoiler heavy end product!] so it's obviously an minor inconvienence having to actually pick one! Shouldn't that be one of your first considerations...? This is munchkin-esk teritory... "I want that bonus to my saves", rather than "I want to be a paladin"

The Crusading Knights of old didn't take time off to learn about berry picking or how nice forests are; they just crusaded away killing everything they saw as evil [which obviously would have been anyone that didn't follow their religion back then].

I understand that we view if differently. And I respect your position. I just wanted to get my mind around why you would restrict it in your game. And you have illustrated it well. I wouldn't play a Pally in your game, though. No offense meant.

Paladins are the only non-Prestige class Prestige class in my games. If you take a Prestige class, that's it, you keep taking it until you have taken all the available levels before you can take levels anywhere else. It's a commitment that you have specifically qualified for, applied for and have been accepted in. You can't go round cherry picking abilities here, you role-play your character, and if that character wants to become a Paladin then why, other than for optimization reasons, would you want to be anything else? Being a shining beacon of good isn't a part time job you know! and certainly not something you'd dilute with track finding and smiling at animals!!

I already know you're not going to agree with me on this, and that is...

Its all cool. We don't agree and thats fine. No harm no foul. I just wanted to get my mind around the way you do it on yout game. I wouldn't want to play a pally in your game though. No offense meant in that statement. Anyway...

[Evil Genius Prime]

Moro wrote:

I'm curious as to how you would handle a character that was a Paladin of say...Erastil?

So am I. Care to elaborate on this question, Stuart?

[KenderKin]

Bump for that answer and whenn a Paladin does wrong where does the atonement spell come from?

[stuart haffenden]

KenderKin wrote:

That is some dumb sh%@ IMO!

This was not an opinion thread obout paladins have to be lawful stupid and "single minded" and devoted...

It is funny anyone would say the paladins devotion to a god is more than the clerics devotion, thus clerics can multiclass but not paladins, boy is that backwards, IMO.....

Lets see why that is really "single minded"
Clerics channel energy at first level
Paladins do not channel energy till 4th level

Where does that energy come from?

Clerics cast spells at first level
Paladins do not till 4th level

Where do the spells come from?

Please tell me how else you view the paladin and LG alignment or post it in one of the many existing threads on that subject....

Oh and prepare to be smited Evil Doer!

Do you see how others managed to not take offence or feel the need to throw insults to get their point across? You sir are making a Paladin and have not once mentioned your God, this in itself speaks volumes about your play style. This is from what you have posted. I have explained my opinion and accept that yours differs.

[stuart haffenden]

Evil Genius Prime wrote:

Moro wrote:

I'm curious as to how you would handle a character that was a Paladin of say...Erastil?

So am I. Care to elaborate on this question, Stuart?

Sure,

The Portfolios presented in the Core book give all classes ideas and role-playing concepts to use in their characters story/background. I assume it is to this that your question is leading [hunting, farming etc.].

Domains are for Clerics, as is multi-classing [if they wish to] however I wouldn't recommend it. My previous comments were about Paladins, Clerics are very unlikely to multiclass in my experience because it weakens their party role, but that's a whole different conversation.

It really depends on how much of the info in the Cleric section of the book you want to apply to the Paladin. To me, unless you're building a Paladin using a Longbow, it's far more likely that you'll pick Iomedae or Torag as your God. However your character could have a link to Erastil from growing up on a farm or living in a forest hunting etc. But once the character devotes his life to being a Paladin he'll probably be seeking out evil to smite, as his Detect Evil and Smite Evil class features suggest! This doesn't mean he can't find himself some food in the woods or that he isn't capable of planting some seeds, but none of his class skills or features lean toward continuing to be a farmer or hunter [at least not of anything that isn't evil!] after turning to the Paladin way of life [detect evil, smite evil, remove some ailments, smite some more evil!].

If you want to play a Hunting Ranger/Paladin then go for it, but to me it looks like cherry picking, [which the OP has demonstrated] something I wouldn’t want in my games. Paizo went to great lengths to remove “dead” levels in all the classes to encourage and reward players to stay in-class and I find it weird that this cherry picking optimization is so hard for some to stay away from as it was the worst thing about 3.broken!

I'm not trying to convert anyone here! I'll run my games my way and you'd not want to play a Paladin in my games! It's all cool, lets not fall out over it or feel the need to flame, variety is the spice of life, after all!

[Moro]

stuart haffenden wrote:

You sir are making a Paladin and have not once mentioned your God

That's perfectly reasonable, he is a player in an RPG, not a Paladin.

Quote:

this in itself speaks volumes about your play style. I have explained my opinion and accept that yours differs.

So this is actually some sort of "munchkin" witch hunt wherein you have already decided that he is playing the game differently than yourself, and thus it is totally okay for you to toss out very thinly veiled insults towards him because you're doing it in the sacred name of ROLEPLAYING? Sorry, I just hate it when people try to call other people out because they're "doing it wrong" in the name of RP.

Edit: rearranged so as not to sound more hostile than I intended.

[MundinIronHand]

Just because someone decides to multicalss does not make them a min/maxer. I tend to think that the OP is doing some of that but its not the point. ANY class can multiclass. What I get from stuart is that a paladin is the only class so devoted to their ideals that they can't. News flash Paladins don't have to be lawful good anymore!!!
So they are not some shining beacon of purity that must be 100% devoted to their god, never marry or have friends, and never have a hobby or any skills. Does not a ranger gain access to spells? Where do they cme from? If I wanted to take the time, it would be soo easy to create a perfect background for a Paladin/Ranger or any other combination that is not just an excuse for min.max or cherry picking.

This is the OP's thread and hijacking it becasue you don't like his style is not polite to him.

As for my thougths on the build. I'd ditch quick draw. Your BAB is over +1 so you can draw as part of a move action. Meaning drop bow, and draw melee weapon while moving to enemy then attack.

Get either deadly aim or power attack. The damage output will be very useful and power attack is a prerequisite for some nice feats like cleave

[KenderKin]

MundinIronHand wrote:

Just because someone decides to multicalss does not make them a min/maxer. I tend to think that the OP is doing some of that but its not the point. ANY class can multiclass. What I get from stuart is that a paladin is the only class so devoted to their ideals that they can't. News flash Paladins don't have to be lawful good anymore!!!

So they are not some shining beacon of purity that must be 100% devoted to their god, never marry or have friends, and never have a hobby or any skills. Does not a ranger gain access to spells? Where do they cme from? If I wanted to take the time, it would be soo easy to create a perfect background for a Paladin/Ranger or any other combination that is not just an excuse for min.max or cherry picking.

This is the OP's thread and hijacking it becasue you don't like his style is not polite to him.

As for my thougths on the build. I'd ditch quick draw. Your BAB is over +1 so you can draw as part of a move action. Meaning drop bow, and draw melee weapon while moving to enemy then attack.

Get either deadly aim or power attack. The damage output will be very useful and power attack is a prerequisite for some nice feats like cleave

Ok thanks......

Actually the thinking is that a half-orc is not likely to become a paladin initially (I am speaking role-playing, not rules against it). The idea really came from LOTR and leaders coming from the forests to lead armies.....

I understand the view of the individual but at the same time a little less hostility might be nice. ;)

I intentionally was hostile in my responce....

Imagine being a person in his game...... My paladin would only be a paladin for a couple of adventures once he convicted and executed the local serial killer, he would whip out (your god is not happy with you)...

DM: So you just killed that unarmed guy

ME: Yep we had his trial the discern lies was going and all the witnesses testimony, plus as you recall he had that knife to the queen's throat when we got him....

DM: Your god is unhappy, you need to atone

ME: Awfer fu72's sake I am doing my job

ME: Oh when you said god was unhappy you meant you, right ok I got it!
Are you sure you understand the paladin?

DM: Yes righteous defenders and...

ME: Oh great I can't play a barbarian either or you'll force me into the noble savage myth.....

AND lastly
ME: Can I play a kender?

[Evil Genius Prime]

stuart haffenden wrote:

Evil Genius Prime wrote:

Moro wrote:

I'm curious as to how you would handle a character that was a Paladin of say...Erastil?

So am I. Care to elaborate on this question, Stuart?

Sure,

The Portfolios presented in the Core book give all classes ideas and role-playing concepts to use in their characters story/background. I assume it is to this that your question is leading [hunting, farming etc.].

Domains are for Clerics, as is multi-classing [if they wish to] however I wouldn't recommend it. My previous comments were about Paladins, Clerics are very unlikely to multiclass in my experience because it weakens their party role, but that's a whole different conversation.

It really depends on how much of the info in the Cleric section of the book you want to apply to the Paladin. To me, unless you're building a Paladin using a Longbow, it's far more likely that you'll pick Iomedae or Torag as your God. However your character could have a link to Erastil from growing up on a farm or living in a forest hunting etc. But once the character devotes his life to being a Paladin he'll probably be seeking out evil to smite, as his Detect Evil and Smite Evil class features suggest! This doesn't mean he can't find himself some food in the woods or that he isn't capable of planting some seeds, but none of his class skills or features lean toward continuing to be a farmer or hunter [at least not of anything that isn't evil!] after turning to the Paladin way of life [detect evil, smite evil, remove some ailments, smite some more evil!].

If you want to play a Hunting Ranger/Paladin then go for it, but to me it looks like cherry picking, [which the OP has demonstrated] something I wouldn’t want in my games. Paizo went to great lengths to remove “dead” levels in all the classes to encourage and reward players to stay in-class and I find it weird that this cherry picking optimization is so hard for some to stay away from as it was the worst thing about 3.broken!

I'm not...

Thanks for sharing your view stuart. I can see and understand your side of the..... debate, argument, conversation. And again, thanks for sharing.

[stuart haffenden]

KenderKin wrote:

I intentionally was hostile in my responce....

Exactly, "intentionally", please re-read the posting policies before repeating this. I was not hostile toward you. I was stating quite clearly what I do and how I see the Paladin class, and what you had posted.

KenderKin wrote:

Imagine being a person in his game......

No...You have no idea whatsoever what my games are like so please, don't imagine.

I run with 5 players and often have other players that want to join the group that I have to turn away so I guess I must be doing something right.
I'm also playing a 20th level Paladin [of Heironeous!] in an Age of Worms campaign.

Evil Genius Prime wrote:

Thanks for sharing your view stuart. I can see and understand your side of the..... debate, argument, conversation. And again, thanks for sharing.

You sir, are very welcome.

KenderKin wrote:

Just because someone decides to multicalss does not make them a min/maxer.

I never said that it did.

KenderKin wrote:

I tend to think that the OP is doing some of that but its not the point.

You're quite right.

KenderKin wrote:

This is the OP's thread and hijacking it becasue you don't like his style is not polite to him.

What? did you not see this...

Moro wrote:

I'm curious as to how you would handle a character that was a Paladin of say...Erastil?

and

KenderKin wrote:

Bump for that answer and whenn a Paladin does wrong where does the atonement spell come from?

I read the whole thread.

Please feel free to have the last word, I'll not post anything else in this thread.

Please continue to enjoy creating your character and receiving feedback on your chosen build from those who wish to contribute. I hope the campaign goes well and your character makes it to level 20.
peace
Stu

[KenderKin]

KenderKin wrote:

Imagine being a person in his game......

No...You have no idea whatsoever what my games are like so please, don't imagine.

Imagination is the whole point. I like that you side stepped my imaginings of your rulings.....

Great fo now I can get back to enjoying the paladin/ranger.....

Now is a munchin worse than a kender?

[MundinIronHand]

KenderKin wrote:

KenderKin wrote:

Imagine being a person in his game......

No...You have no idea whatsoever what my games are like so please, don't imagine.

Imagination is the whole point. I like that you side stepped my imaginings of your rulings.....

Great fo now I can get back to enjoying the paladin/ranger.....

Now is a munchin worse than a kender?

depends who you ask, i say yes