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Ok I have went over the Vision and Light Rules which are good but they do't answer my question of: what are the distances under normal light conditions ( bright sunny day, outside , clear skies and flat terrain) can a character see? is there a rule or should I use what little common sense I posses?
As I mentioned in passing in another thread, I think the question ought to be what object of a given size can a character see at a given distance, because you can generally spot a tree from a much greater distance than you could spot a dog in the same conditions.
Yeah, there are size modifiers for stealth, but those don't mesh well with the penaties for range, IMHO.
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Well i guess the Perception skill gives a little bit more clarification but it seems a little ridiculous. Notice a visible creature:DC 0 +1 per 10ft of distance.
I just ran across this note on another message board:
"According to the 2e Players Handbook, under clear sky in daylight, the maximum range at which a man-sized object can be seen is about 1500 yards, if its moving. If it isn't, this drops to 1000 yards. At 500 yards, you can roughly identify the thing- shape, color, creature type, etc. At 100 yards, you can make out an individual's identity ("Hey, that's Bob!")."
Now, I have no idea how accurately the 2e PHB modeled this, but this is the kind of thing I'd like to use as a starting point, applying modifiers as needed for differences in size and distance, plus light conditions, movement, other objects blocking line of sight, etc.
The current Perception rules as I understand them would give you at best a DC 82 to spot a Stone Giant at a distance of 300 yards across an open plain in broad daylight:
DC 0 to spot a living creature
+1/10' (300 yds = 900 ft = +90)
-8 Stealth penalty for a Huge creature
-2 favorable conditions (open plain in broad daylight)
The way I would understand seeing something like a person, the +1 DC every 10 ft is noticing detail. I mean even at the end of a football field (300 ft), most people are going to notice a person, someone who even doesn’t have 20/20 vision. It’s the detail you won’t notice. What color is their skin? What color are their clothes? Do they have a hat on? Or the really good perception checks…Are they wearing a ring? Are their shoes tied? Or, is it someone you recognize?
So for just noticing the person from a distance, I would keep it at 0. Unless they are just insanely far, and then you could adjust accordingly by DM’s prerogative. But finding it harder to notice someone at a hundred feet compared to 10 ft? I can’t agree with that. You are going to notice them at both distances, you just won’t notice as much detail at 100 ft.
Personally, I think that +1 should be 10 ft per size chategory of an object (10 for fine, 20 for diminutive). A medium creature would be a large object, and I would give it a +1/50 ft. A house would be gargantuan or collosal, so +1/80 or 90 ft.
Combine this with the size bonuses/penalties and you get some interesting results. This is for a person with no bonus taking 10:
House: -16 stealth, take 10 for 26, see out to .44 miles. If you have a +3, its half a mile.
Person: 10, see out to 500 ft (about 1 block)
halfling: 6, see out to 240 ft. (half a block)
Tiny (a book): 2, see out to 60 feet (other side of your house)
smaller than tiny you never automatically succeed.
Now, I haven't used this system at all. I just came up with it, but I'm liking it the more I think about it.
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1 per 10 feet, +/- size bonus,
give buildings -5 (from effective dex of 0)
so a huge sized barn, at 100yards (300 feet) is perception check 17...
yeah, thats dumb
a gargantuan barn would need a spot check of 13.
a colassal barn needs a check of 9.
without the extra -5 for buildings its even dumber (checks of 22, 18 and 14).
Ok I have went over the Vision and Light Rules which are good but they do't answer my question of: what are the distances under normal light conditions ( bright sunny day, outside , clear skies and flat terrain) can a character see? is there a rule or should I use what little common sense I posses?
For the baseline, you can find the "Maximum Encounter Distance" indicated under the description of each terrain type. This is the maximum range for a Perception check to detect a creature in that terrain.