Alchemist Brew Potion requirement

[Brett Gillespie]

Under the Magic Item Creation rules for potions, it says that

The creator must have prepared the spell to be placed in the potion (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires.

With regards to alchemists, lets say I'd like to brew a potion of Cure Light Wounds, which is one of my formulae. To make the potion do I need to prepare Cure Light Wounds as one of my extracts, which is then used for the potion? Or, like the sorcerer and bard, do I simply have to know the spell?

In my understanding, the Alchemist is somewhere in between Wizard and Sorcerer (for spell preparation) because they must mix their extracts before-hand, but aren't required to do so after rest or first thing in the morning.

any ideas? thanks :)

[hogarth]

I'd say you have to have it prepared.

But note that it's trivially easy to make a CLW potion even if you take the +5 to DC for not having the spell prepared (DC 5+1+5=11, easy enough that even the dumbest alchemist can make the Craft: alchemy check with a "take 10").

[Brett Gillespie]

Okay. Thanks!

One other thing. If I wanted to create a potion from an Alchemist formula (up to 3rd level) that i'm not high enough level to cast, does that just increase the craft DC? or does it prevent me from making it at all.

edit: i just looked into the first paragraphs of magic item creation, and it says that most of the time, item creation prereqs. are spells that must be known by the creator to make them. immediately after that line it says that the DC to create a magic item increases by 5 for each prereq he fails to meet. the only exception to that rule is the original item creation feat.

[hogarth]

Brett Gillespie wrote:

Okay. Thanks!

One other thing. If I wanted to create a potion from an Alchemist formula (up to 3rd level) that i'm not high enough level to cast, does that just increase the craft DC? or does it prevent me from making it at all.

That's a good question, and I'm not sure the answer is clearly stated anywhere. But I'd suggest that a character can't create an item with a higher caster level than his character level.

[Kierato]

Pg. 546 of the core rule book states that you only need the appropriate item creation feat and any spells for spell-completion and spell-trigger items (a potion is use activated). For each prereq. that you do not meet, increase the creation DC by +5. (if your caster level is lower than what you are making, +5 DC).

[Brett Gillespie]

Reading a little more into the opening paragraphs of Magic Item Creation, right near where you pointed out the prereq DC increase, is this line:

"A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than
her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to
cast the needed spell."

If say I were level 1, and my caster level wasn't high enough to even cast the spell (although it is on my 'spell list'), would it default to +5 DC? Or preclude me entirely. hmm...

What's also interesting is what you pointed out, Kierato, about how you only need the feat, and in the case of spell trigger or spell completion items, the spell itself. But the brewing a potion description talks about having the spell prepared, and expending it, or if you're a sorcerer/bard, just knowing it. X_X

confusing...

edited to add: normally if you wanna make a magic item, you can just look right at the item description to find the listed prerequisites, and you can go from there to see what you don't have, etc... but with potions, they aren't actually listed.

[RickSummon]

I'd have to say the alchemist couldn't create a potion that duplicated an extract that was beyond his level to prepare. That is, if the alchemist wasn't yet able to create 3rd-level extracts, he could not create a potion based on a 3rd-level spell whether he added +5 to the DC or not.

Also, I don't think the alchemist would have to prepare the extract first, then make the potion. He would, however, have to expend an extract slot of the appropriate level.

[0gre]

So a somewhat related question. Can an alchemist create potions from combined extracts?

[Spes Magna Mark]

0gre wrote:

So a somewhat related question. Can an alchemist create potions from combined extracts?

As a houserule, I'd seriously consider it. Dual-effect potions, however, would obviously have an increased cost, and I'd disallow stacking the same spell in one potion. Otherwise, you end up with dual-cure light wounds potions healing 2d8+2 points of damage for 100 gp.

Interesting idea.

Mark L. Chance
Spes Magna Games

[0gre]

Spes Magna Mark wrote:

0gre wrote:

So a somewhat related question. Can an alchemist create potions from combined extracts?

As a houserule, I'd seriously consider it. Dual-effect potions, however, would obviously have an increased cost, and I'd disallow stacking the same spell in one potion. Otherwise, you end up with dual-cure light wounds potions healing 2d8+2 points of damage for 100 gp.

Interesting idea.

Mark L. Chance
Spes Magna Games

A combined extract is two levels higher though so it would be 2d8+2 for 300gp. I was thinking more along the lines of some nice tanking combos like enlarge person and shield.

Edit: Actually caster level would be 7th so the potion would do 2d8+10 and market price would be 1050 (7*3*50).

Hmm... I guess the sad truth is beyond first level alchemists higher caster level makes them poor potion crafters.

[Anburaid]

A GM can always limit what materials are available for crafting magic items, so even if by the RAW an alchemist can craft higher level potions, he/she is still restricted by the size of the coin purse.