Drivethru's PoD option has been a struggle to say the least.
Chief Technical Officer
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A brand new publisher who does not have any associated name recognition behind it (whether it is the owners or the designers) will have a difficult time getting picking up by the major distributors.
There are a couple of companies that exist to help smaller publishers with that problem: Impressions Marketing and Studio 2 Publishing. They won't be the right answer for everyone, but between the two of them, they currently rep about 400 products from smaller companies in Alliance's system.
Additionally, the sales people that work for the distributors won't be as inclined to "push" that product to the retailers when they are on the phone with them.
Frankly, distribution no longer really bears that role for *anyone*. A decade or more ago, retailers got much of their product information from distributors, so distributors could and would "sell" their customers on particular products that they thought would do well. Today's retailers are expected to educate themselves much more, and so distribution sales is much more about taking orders than selling products these days, if you see the distinction.
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Chief Technical Officer
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I think PODing would stress Paizo's already stressed-out staff.
When that time comes, if we are still using a PoD printer as our printing source, and you offer the same options as our PoD source (unlike DriveThru's PoD option), then we'll be among the first to sign up.
Gary would have to write a lot of new code, but apart from that, integrating it into our workflow would actually be fairly easy.
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Gary would have to write a lot of new code, but apart from that, integrating it into our workflow would actually be fairly easy.I think PODing would stress Paizo's already stressed-out staff.
When that time comes, if we are still using a PoD printer as our printing source, and you offer the same options as our PoD source (unlike DriveThru's PoD option), then we'll be among the first to sign up.
Huh. Coolio!
Open Design:
Incantations from the Other Side: Spirit Magic
I'mSORRYWhaaa?
This is coming out in print? I thought it was only PDF! This is a great book for folks looking to do incantations.
I wonder if you let a little cat out of the bag there, Vic...
-Ben.
Vic mentioned Impressions as a consolidator. As a client of Impressions, I can't recommend them enough. Aldo has been the greatest resource to me and my company. If it was for his efforts, Jon Brazer Enterprises wouldn't be half the company we are today.
Frankly, distribution no longer really bears that role for *anyone*. A decade or more ago, retailers got much of their product information from distributors, so distributors could and would "sell" their customers on particular products that they thought would do well. Today's retailers are expected to educate themselves much more, and so distribution sales is much more about taking orders than selling products these days, if you see the distinction.
You are absolutely right, Vic. The FLGS owner that runs his store like a business will educate himself about upcoming products and pay close attention to what his customers buy and request. Unfortunately, the majority of game stores are still run by people who do it as a hobby and therefore don't take that time and rely upon their sales reps to suggest new items to them.
Vic mentioned Impressions as a consolidator. As a client of Impressions, I can't recommend them enough. Aldo has been the greatest resource to me and my company. If it was for his efforts, Jon Brazer Enterprises wouldn't be half the company we are today.
Aldo is a fantastic guy to work with. He has great business sense and is very practical.
I'm a client of Studio 2 because they were who Bastion Press had used for years before I picked up the rights. I have been very happy with Studio 2 over the course of the time I've been partnered with them and Jim Searcy (who runs Studio 2) has gone out of his way for me whenever I've needed something.
Has anyone tried CreateSpace? It's affiliated with Amazon and offers direct listing from from what I've read. I'm wondering what impact a POD like that would have on a small press company?
Back when I was a freelancer, I worked with a publisher that used CreateSpace. Their conclusion: less options than Lulu and less sales than Lulu. But that was a few years ago.
Createspace; if your willing to do 8 x 10 size B&W softbacks its cheaper than doing your printing through lulu.com if you purchase a pro version. But is more difficult to use than LULU, and lulu does better quality so its good for a start up wanting to do a print run, but its bad from POD point of purchase company which lulu does extremly well.
This makes me think about a virtual storefront for POD rpg publishers.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Open Design:
Incantations from the Other Side: Spirit MagicI'mSORRYWhaaa?
This is coming out in print? I thought it was only PDF! This is a great book for folks looking to do incantations.
I wonder if you let a little cat out of the bag there, Vic...
-Ben.
I think Open Design just had some POD copies to sell at PaizoCon. You'd have to judge for yourself whether or not that really qualifies as "in print."
I was adding to my wishlist for 3pp PFRPG products and notice there are not many print items.
Now personally I dislike PDFs. They are handy, but the grognard in me loves the feel and sound of that paper flipping through my hands. I can't hand a PDF around the table, and don't have the print/binding capabilities to make my own.
I'm sure this has been discussed before too, but couldn't find it.
Are there other sites that have PFRPG printed copies of these items? I haven't gone through Drive-thru yet for their stuff so I'm sure I'll find a little more, but I'm a one stop shop kind of guy so would rather pick them up from here, but I will browes others if needed.
Raging Swan Press (a small UK-based publisher) produce print and PDF products. We sell our print products at Amazon UK and Amazon.com and our PDFs at the usual places. (Currently, we don't sell print product at Paizo because being based in the UK it costs so much to actually get copies to Paizo).
While we don't release all our products in a print version we will be adding more as the year continues. Obviously, though, providing every one of our products in print would be commercial suicide.
Currently we have one print product, Retribution, and another one on the way, Road of the Dead. Both are adventures. Later in the year, we'll be releasing an updated and revised compilation of Swallowfeld and The Lonely Coast (the Lonely Coast is a free, 30-page extensively bookmarked mini campaign setting) in print.
How about This :)
16th-20th level minisetting/adventure on the plane of dreams
I just found out that Paizo is going to have a 3PP display at their booth at GenCon, so if you are looking for print copies of 3PP Pathfinder compatible books and you're going to GenCon, make sure to check it out. I know for sure that copies of all five of our print products will be there with them.
Robert
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming
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I just found out that Paizo is going to have a 3PP display at their booth at GenCon, so if you are looking for print copies of 3PP Pathfinder compatible books and you're going to GenCon, make sure to check it out. I know for sure that copies of all five of our print products will be there with them.
Robert
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming
That's very cool of Paizo to do that.
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My way of looking at it is that for an item to really, fully reach the gaming audience, it NEEDS to be in print, where it can be passed around the table. There's something about seeing it in an actual book that makes that primitive knot on the base of my spine tingle. Stuff like A Fistful of Denarii and the Super Genius Adventurer's Handbook were products (or contain products) I've raved about to my players... but until they were in glorious print, even POD, my players would have to go and seek them out themselves without me standing overhead and mentioning how cool they were. I've already bought 4 copies of the A Fistful of Denarii as gifts, which were sales that would NEVER have been made in .pdf, since there's no GOOD way to gift a .pdf. Lulu's been a godsend there, and I've been really excited to see the floodgates start to open more here, with stuff like 0one's Great City products, Rite Publishing's Feats 101/101 Weapon Properties (why isn't that awesome product more raved about?) and Obsidian Twilight, and the products I've mentioned elsewhere in the thread being more readily available on Lulu, forward-thinking companies like 4 Winds Fantasy starting with print from day one, and big name publishers like Green Ronin getting into the game soon. Kudos to all of you guys... now keep the ball rolling! Us Grognards that can't have a computer at every gaming table are counting on you.
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That's very cool of Paizo to do that.I just found out that Paizo is going to have a 3PP display at their booth at GenCon, so if you are looking for print copies of 3PP Pathfinder compatible books and you're going to GenCon, make sure to check it out. I know for sure that copies of all five of our print products will be there with them.
Robert
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming
+1!
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Distribution certainly has an impact. A brand new publisher who does not have any associated name recognition behind it (whether it is the owners or the designers) will have a difficult time getting picking up by the major distributors.
I am still in the midst of working out all of the business end details, but I found this statement to be not true, personally.
I feared such a thing would be the case, but my brand new company, IPG, is going to be distributed by the largest distributor in hobby gaming! I have another, smaller distributor who will carry our full line as well, and more irons in the fire, so to speak.
Now, as to the second part of your question: will they "push" the products? I doubt it. But I am sure I will sell many more copies through them than through my website!
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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How about This :)
16th-20th level minisetting/adventure on the plane of dreams
Clinton Boomer and Jonathan McAnulty? You know that's going to be good.
@Stark Enterprises
I really don't know; but if you want to rave about it I would humbly request a review on Paizo, LULU.com, ENworld, Rpg.net, or even Rpgnow (if you bought it there or got a complimentary)
For those fans of print products its $10.99 on LULU.com with a complimentary PDF.
@Tarren Dei
Thanks for your support. The Book is heading to layout soon as we are awaiting only one map.
Here's a new print release. The Book of Beasts: Monsters of the River Nations will be available soon. It left the printer and is on its way to the warehouse. Shortly thereafter in game stores.
LPJ Design will be making an announcement next week addressing the issue of a lack of LPJ Design printed material and acces to it.
Clinton Boomer and Jonathan McAnulty? You know that's going to be good.How about This :)
16th-20th level minisetting/adventure on the plane of dreams
I've seen drafts of some of the encounters. It will be AWESOME.
@Deinol
Thanks for the support
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Here's a new print release. The Book of Beasts: Monsters of the River Nations will be available soon. It left the printer and is on its way to the warehouse. Shortly thereafter in game stores.
You know, if you added one letter it would be a whole different book and a lot more interesting. Just saying... ;-)
You know, if you added one letter it would be a whole different book and a lot more interesting. Just saying... ;-)
*Laughing quite hard* Sorry but the Pathfinder Compatibility license doesn't not allow me to cover that.
I hadn't noticed that before. Thank you for the good laugh.
Looking back at this old thread, I have to report that Lulu sales have been almost nonexistent on Denarii. POD is hard to do. Trying to publish large print runs makes me nervous.
Looking back at this old thread, I have to report that Lulu sales have been almost nonexistent on Denarii. POD is hard to do. Trying to publish large print runs makes me nervous.
We've been using Lulu for 2 years for our printing services, ordering when we need to ship to IPR or Paizo or for our own use. We recently signed on with Studio 2 Publishing for distribution, and our order numbers were higher than we expected, but still manageable. I'm still looking at other POD services to replace Lulu, though.
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Looking back at this old thread, I have to report that Lulu sales have been almost nonexistent on Denarii. POD is hard to do. Trying to publish large print runs makes me nervous.
This breaks my heart. This is SUCH an awesome, affordably-priced product with all the potential in the world. I've bought 7 copies at Lulu alone... surely I'm not the only one out there that wants his players to have more intelligently-balanced options?
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Looking back at this old thread, I have to report that Lulu sales have been almost nonexistent on Denarii. POD is hard to do. Trying to publish large print runs makes me nervous.This breaks my heart. This is SUCH an awesome, affordably-priced product with all the potential in the world. I've bought 7 copies at Lulu alone... surely I'm not the only one out there that wants his players to have more intelligently-balanced options?
For me if I want something in print or PDF depends on what it is. For something Like A Fistful of Denarii, I actually prefer a PDF. I can print out the relevant pages for the class and give them to my players to use if one of them plays one.
I'm still looking at other POD services to replace Lulu, though.May I ask why?
Because Lulu is one of the highest priced POD companies there is. I like the quality of their product, but their prices are pretty steep and a lot of others beat them.
I'm still looking at other POD services to replace Lulu, though.
email sent.
I'm still looking at other POD services to replace Lulu, though.
Talk to Jim Searcy about Lightning Source. I've been very pleased with them and the quality and price of their printing.
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Steve Creech
DragonWing Games
I'm still looking at other POD services to replace Lulu, though.email sent.
Got it, thanks!
I'm still looking at other POD services to replace Lulu, though.Talk to Jim Searcy about Lightning Source. I've been very pleased with them and the quality and price of their printing.
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Steve Creech
DragonWing Games
I have heard that getting set up with LS is a pain in the rear, but it's worth a shot. I've tried contacting Superior, but haven't heard back from them in over a week.
I have heard that getting set up with LS is a pain in the rear, but it's worth a shot. I've tried contacting Superior, but haven't heard back from them in over a week.I'm still looking at other POD services to replace Lulu, though.Talk to Jim Searcy about Lightning Source. I've been very pleased with them and the quality and price of their printing.
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Steve Creech
DragonWing Games
The biggest pain is using their templates for your covers. The rest is fairly easy. Like I said, talk to Jim.
The biggest pain is using their templates for your covers. The rest is fairly easy. Like I said, talk to Jim.
Sent Jim an email.
Thanks!
There are also some tricksy hoops with specs for Lightning Source - just be aware that the hoops are there. Also, sometimes they're on fire.
I wrote a blog post 2 weeks ago about why short PDFs are so popular among publishers and print books are rarer. Give it a read.
Rite Publishing is working very hard at making sure that there will be a print release from us every month for the next 12 months, via our Cubicle Seven partnership.
Coolio. Thanks, Dale. Any more news on the print editions of your company's River Nations supps?
The test print came in earlier this week. I'm out of town this weekend or I would have the final to the printer before the end of the weekend. Both my editor (aka my girlfriend) and I are impressed with how amazing it looks. This really is going to knock people's socks off.
There are also some tricksy hoops with specs for Lightning Source - just be aware that the hoops are there. Also, sometimes they're on fire.
Looks like we're probably going to go with them. Can't beat their rates. Thanks to Steve prompting me to get in ask Jim Searcy about it, he's putting me in contact with their LSI rep ASAP. It looks like we're going to save nearly 50% by going with LSI over Lulu, even with the set up fees, which is fantastic.
Looks like we're probably going to go with them. Can't beat their rates. Thanks to Steve prompting me to get in ask Jim Searcy about it, he's putting me in contact with their LSI rep ASAP. It looks like we're going to save nearly 50% by going with LSI over Lulu, even with the set up fees, which is fantastic.
Glad I could be of service. If you need any other help, just ask. I've been in this business for a long time. :)
Which reminds me, I need to email Jim my new address so the checks arrive...
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Steve