Speed modification calculations (Haste and Jump skill)

[Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper]

I just wanted to confirm how to adjust the character's speed for the Haste spell and the Acrobatics - Jump skill bonus.

1) Haste
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Haste states that all of the target's "modes of movement increase by 30' to a maximum of twice the subject's normal speed using that form of movement. This increase counts as an enhancement bonus..."

Since it references "normal move" and not base move, I am guessing the following situations would be ruled as:

Situation 1: Halfing with 20' move. His move would only increase to 40', since this is double his normal move.

Situation 2: Human level 1 fighter in platemail. His move would only increase to 40', since his normal move in platemail is 20', and that doubled would be 40'.

Situation 3: Human level 15 monk with no armor. His move is normally 80', however 50' of this is the monk's Fast Movement benefit which is an enhancement bonus, therefore, he would not gain the additional 30' since it is also an enhancement bonus.

Situation 4: Human level 7 monk with no armor. His move is 50' (+20' enhancement bonus). His move would increase to 60', since the 30' ehancement bonus from Haste is greater than the 20' Fast Movement enhancement bonus.

Situation 5: Boots of Springing and Striding provide a +10 enhancement bonus, and accordingly this would not be calculated into the normal move (unless the target only had a 5' normal move, then the boot's benefit would be greater than the Haste spell benefit).

2) Acrobatics - Jump skill bonus
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Per page 88, "creatures with a base land speed above 30' receive a +4 racial bonus on Acrobatics checks made to jump for every 10' of their speed above 30'. Creatures with a base land speed below 30' receive a -4 racial bonus on Acrobatics checks made to jump for every 10' of their speed below 30'."

I believe that "base land speed" is only the speed of the character according to their race. (Does not include modifiers such as enhancement bonus).

Situation 6: A human in platemail. Armor rules (page 150) indicates "The number on Table 6-6 is the character's speed while wearing armor." The way that this reads to me, is that this is now the character's new "base speed", since it isn't reflected as a penalty adjustment to the character's base speed (i.e. a -10' penalty). A human in platemail would not receive a -4 penalty for this reduction in their speed, since it is their new "base speed" when wearing armor.

(Since the armor rules don't explicitly state if the speed reduction is a penalty, I could see this ruled alternatively as that a human wearing plate is suffing a -10 penalty and accordingly should suffer a -4 penalty to jump checks.)

Situation 7: A level 7 human monk with no armor. The monk's speed is 50' (30' base +20' enhancement bonus for Fast Movement). He would not gain a jump bonus, since his base speed is 30'.

(Note: this does not seem right to me, as I think the enhancement bonus should be included into the speed calculations... but typically "base" refers to an unmodified value. If anyone can find rules to the contrary, please reference them.)

[Ice Titan]

Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:

Situation 2: Human level 1 fighter in platemail. His move would only increase to 40', since his normal move in platemail is 20', and that doubled would be 40'.

You're correct but for the wrong reasons.

Human fighter's base speed is 30', modified down to 20' by armor. When he's hasted, his base speed goes to 60, which is modified down to 40' by armor (pg. 170 of the Core Rulebook, bottom left-hand corner).

A dwarf in full-plate is hasted. 20' + 30' = 50', but he can't gain more than twice, so 40'.

A halfling in full-plate is hasted. 20' + 30' = 50', but he can't gain more than twice, so 40'. 40' with armor brings him to 30'.

[Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper]

Ice Titan wrote:

Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:

Situation 2: Human level 1 fighter in platemail. His move would only increase to 40', since his normal move in platemail is 20', and that doubled would be 40'.

You're correct but for the wrong reasons.

Human fighter's base speed is 30', modified down to 20' by armor. When he's hasted, his base speed goes to 60, which is modified down to 40' by armor (pg. 170 of the Core Rulebook, bottom left-hand corner).

A dwarf in full-plate is hasted. 20' + 30' = 50', but he can't gain more than twice, so 40'.

A halfling in full-plate is hasted. 20' + 30' = 50', but he can't gain more than twice, so 40'. 40' with armor brings him to 30'.

Thanks for the clarification, and the reference to the chart.

So basically the Haste speed calculation formula is:

Base Speed + (Greater of: Base Speed or Enhancement Bonus) - Reduced Speed adjusment (based off of the sum of the two previous values)

[drsparnum]

Some spells or items that affect movement specifically list the effect as an enhancement bonus to base land speed (e.g., boots of striding and springing, horseshoes of speed, expeditious retreat), while some do not (e.g., haste).

My interpertation of RAW is that if the spell affects base land speed it affects the calculations for acrobatics checks (e.g., expeditious retreat). If the spell does not affect base land speed it does not affect the calcuation for acrobatics checks (e.g., haste).

My personal interperation of RAI is that anything that affects land speed should affect acrobatics checks, including monk speed bonuses and haste checks (ESPECIALLY monk speed bonuses), and that the term "base land speed" is used to exclude things like swim, fly, burrow, and hover speeds from affecting the calculation. It would be unnecessarily tedious to remember which speed affects adjust base land speed and which don't - so I would let all affects alter acrobatics checks.

If you run faster you can jump farther. It's no accident Carl Lewis held the record in the hundred meter dash and long jump at the same time. If you don't allow the monk speed bonuses to affect acrobatics checks than a L1 dufus with a ring of jumping can better imitate the jumping from the movie Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon than a L20 monk without that ring.

[Maezer]

drsparnum wrote:

My interpertation of RAW is that if the spell affects base land speed it affects the calculations for acrobatics checks (e.g., expeditious retreat). If the spell does not affect base land speed it does not affect the calcuation for acrobatics checks (e.g., haste).

Haste expressly states in the spell description that "...and it affects the creature's jumping distance as normal for increased speed."