| DM_Blake |
Define "high ability scores".
I'm fairly sure you could make a monk with all 6 ability scores at a 10. Essentially a "zero point buy".
Sure, he'd be weak, but you could make him. You could also make a fighter with that same zero point buy.
But you couldn't make a cleric, druid, sorcerer, or wizard with a 10 in all ability scores (unless you're satisfied with casting only cantrips). These classes have abilities that cannot be use without a value higher than 10 in at least one ability score.
Monks have no such restrictions.
So yeah, a monk with mediocre scores is weak, but in organized play, everyone has equally weak scores, so the monk doesn't suffer too much. Sure, he spreads out his points more than most, but the difference is fairly minor.
Noticeable, but minor.
| Lord Twig |
A lot of people say that, but I guess it depends on what you want. If you want the highest Attack bonus and most damage, don't pick a Monk. But you can easily make a viable Monk with 20 point buy.
Let's compare a Human Fighter to a Human Monk.
Fighter
Str 18 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 8
Monk
Str 15 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 16 Cha 8
These seem pretty reasonable. If the Fighter better at hitting stuff? Sure! But the Monk has more skills (5 vs. 3), better Saves (+2 to all saves vs. +2 to Fort) and more feats (6 vs. 3).
Assuming they both took Weapons Focus, the Fighter can hit with a Greatsword at +6 for 2d6+6 damage, the gets two attacks at +1 for 1d6+2 damage. The average Orc has an AC of 13 and 6hps. The Fighter can take out one, maybe two a round if he uses Cleave. The Monk can take out one, maybe two a round if he gets lucky with his rolls.
Plus the Monk has other ways to shine. He can tumble around for flanking with the Fighter, use Stealth and Perception for scouting, or whatever. He can be useful to the party in a number of ways.
Athyc
|
Define "high ability scores".
I'm fairly sure you could make a monk with all 6 ability scores at a 10. Essentially a "zero point buy".
Sure, he'd be weak, but you could make him. You could also make a fighter with that same zero point buy.
But you couldn't make a cleric, druid, sorcerer, or wizard with a 10 in all ability scores (unless you're satisfied with casting only cantrips). These classes have abilities that cannot be use without a value higher than 10 in at least one ability score.
Monks have no such restrictions.
So yeah, a monk with mediocre scores is weak, but in organized play, everyone has equally weak scores, so the monk doesn't suffer too much. Sure, he spreads out his points more than most, but the difference is fairly minor.
Noticeable, but minor.
Nicely phrased.
I have built the monk character, but not yet played him. I expect my skill (or lack thereof) will be a more important factor than his ability scores. ;-)
My biggest concern is his AC. But if he survives long enough he can buy magical items and increase his ability scores to improve that. And I really should have lowered his charisma to gain something else. I suppose I still could - I have registered the character but not yet played him.
| Majuba |
Monks scale very quickly up and down with their ability scores (which is somewhat your point I think).
At a 15 point-buy, making a monk that isn't horribly lop-sided and is relatively as strong as another melee type character is somewhat difficult. I think you would have a good point there.
At 20 point-buy though, things have evened out pretty well, with probably another +2 overall to AC, saves, and/or +1 to DC, or attack and/or damage. I've seen several monks in PFS - they kick butt.
Jean Tannen
|
DM_Blake wrote:Define "high ability scores".
I'm fairly sure you could make a monk with all 6 ability scores at a 10. Essentially a "zero point buy".
Sure, he'd be weak, but you could make him. You could also make a fighter with that same zero point buy.
But you couldn't make a cleric, druid, sorcerer, or wizard with a 10 in all ability scores (unless you're satisfied with casting only cantrips). These classes have abilities that cannot be use without a value higher than 10 in at least one ability score.
Monks have no such restrictions.
So yeah, a monk with mediocre scores is weak, but in organized play, everyone has equally weak scores, so the monk doesn't suffer too much. Sure, he spreads out his points more than most, but the difference is fairly minor.
Noticeable, but minor.
Nicely phrased.
I have built the monk character, but not yet played him. I expect my skill (or lack thereof) will be a more important factor than his ability scores. ;-)
My biggest concern is his AC. But if he survives long enough he can buy magical items and increase his ability scores to improve that. And I really should have lowered his charisma to gain something else. I suppose I still could - I have registered the character but not yet played him.
Look into taking UMD and buying a wand of mage armor. That's what I am doing with my monk, and every combat, that's his first round is to tap himself with his wand.
| Anonymous Visitor 163 576 |
Mage armor is an hour, you might be able to anticipate sometimes.
When the wand runs out, replace it with a pearl of power. Give it to the wizard, and just ask for a repeat of the spell he's already casting on himself.
If there's no wizard, you'll have to settle for a shield of faith. See if you can get a magic vestment spell as well. Offer to protect the caster in question in exchange. Worked great for my monk.
| Maveric28 |
Mage armor is an hour, you might be able to anticipate sometimes.
When the wand runs out, replace it with a pearl of power. Give it to the wizard, and just ask for a repeat of the spell he's already casting on himself.
If there's no wizard, you'll have to settle for a shield of faith. See if you can get a magic vestment spell as well. Offer to protect the caster in question in exchange. Worked great for my monk.
In our Crimson Throne campaign, the party monk took her first significant share of party treasure and blew 750 gold on a fully charged Wand of Mage Armor. She presented this to the party Sorcerer (my character) and made the request that I use it for her benefit and mine whenever trouble reared it's ugly head. This I readily agreed to, and between her Dex, Wisdom bonus, Dodge feat and the Mage Armor wand, she entered combat with a steady AC of 21 almost every time. This was starting at about 2nd level... the party is now 7th or 8th, and her AC has been further boosted by other protective items and a higher Wisdom score than she started with. When she fights defensively, the DM can't touch her without rolling a 20.