The text of the magic item Instant Fortress does not state where you can use the item. A player of mine is considering building the item with Craft Wondrous Item and is ruminating about using it in dungeons.
For use in free space the rules are pretty clear, but how would Instant Fortress interact with capped ceilings and multiple floors? Will it break through walls, ceilings and floors, stop at obstacles or not function at all? The walls of the Fortress are made of adamantine, so technically it should be able to break through most walls.
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The text of the magic item Instant Fortress does not state where you can use the item. A player of mine is considering building the item with Craft Wondrous Item and is ruminating about using it in dungeons.
For use in free space the rules are pretty clear, but how would Instant Fortress interact with capped ceilings and multiple floors? Will it break through walls, ceilings and floors, stop at obstacles or not function at all? The walls of the Fortress are made of adamantine, so technically it should be able to break through most walls.
As with any item that is summoned or conjured (Like the wall spells) if an item or creature etc cannot fit within the given space it fails. Quoting from the spell wall of force
... must be continuous and unbroken when formed. If its surface is broken by any object or creature, the spell fails.There is a slightly different precedent set with enlarge person where it grows to the maximum allowable, but I think this applies a bit differently as it is used to alter something that is already in place, not summoning. Also, a Castle is more like a wall than it is a PC.
The text of the magic item Instant Fortress does not state where you can use the item. A player of mine is considering building the item with Craft Wondrous Item and is ruminating about using it in dungeons.
For use in free space the rules are pretty clear, but how would Instant Fortress interact with capped ceilings and multiple floors? Will it break through walls, ceilings and floors, stop at obstacles or not function at all? The walls of the Fortress are made of adamantine, so technically it should be able to break through most walls.
Well it already has the ability to cut into the ground (10 ft) as part of it's 1 round of opening. It stands to reason it could do the same with floors. But i guess that is a matter of dm discretion. I would probably let it go through the ceiling if a player wanted to use it in a dungeon. After all it's a pricey magic item, and not insanely powerful for the level you'll be aquiring it at. I dont see a reason to limit it.
Well it already has the ability to cut into the ground (10 ft) as part of it's 1 round of opening. It stands to reason it could do the same with floors. But i guess that is a matter of dm discretion. I would probably let it go through the ceiling if a player wanted to use it in a dungeon. After all it's a pricey magic item, and not insanely powerful for the level you'll be aquiring it at. I dont see a reason to limit it.The text of the magic item Instant Fortress does not state where you can use the item. A player of mine is considering building the item with Craft Wondrous Item and is ruminating about using it in dungeons.
For use in free space the rules are pretty clear, but how would Instant Fortress interact with capped ceilings and multiple floors? Will it break through walls, ceilings and floors, stop at obstacles or not function at all? The walls of the Fortress are made of adamantine, so technically it should be able to break through most walls.
Well, besides the question of the structural integrity of the dungeon ( especially once the Instant Fortress is undeployed ^^ ), there's of course the fact that many of the affected rooms may contain unhappy occupants. :D
So, what would happen in, say, a cave of natural stone with a low ceiling?
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Well, besides the question of the structural integrity of the dungeon ( especially once the Instant Fortress is undeployed ^^ ), there's of course the fact that many of the affected rooms may contain unhappy occupants. :D
So, what would happen in, say, a cave of natural stone with a low ceiling?
This is why it is a bad idea to let it break ceilings and walls and such, the use of the item in pretty much any dungeon would cause total structural failure and probably kill anything in the place. I don't think it is meant to be used underground or inside of buildings.
This is why it is a bad idea to let it break ceilings and walls and such, the use of the item in pretty much any dungeon would cause total structural failure and probably kill anything in the place. I don't think it is meant to be used underground or inside of buildings.
Well, besides the question of the structural integrity of the dungeon ( especially once the Instant Fortress is undeployed ^^ ), there's of course the fact that many of the affected rooms may contain unhappy occupants. :D
So, what would happen in, say, a cave of natural stone with a low ceiling?
Quite honestly, I'd prefer that, too, but I'd be delighted to hear something official from Jason, James or the others devs.
This is why it is a bad idea to let it break ceilings and walls and such, the use of the item in pretty much any dungeon would cause total structural failure and probably kill anything in the place. I don't think it is meant to be used underground or inside of buildings.
Well, besides the question of the structural integrity of the dungeon ( especially once the Instant Fortress is undeployed ^^ ), there's of course the fact that many of the affected rooms may contain unhappy occupants. :D
So, what would happen in, say, a cave of natural stone with a low ceiling?
The answer to the structural integrity problem is simple. Magic. The item description does not indicate it bores, tunnels or digs 10 ft down, just that it extends. It doesnt say there has to be a big hole there when you close up the fortress. I would chalk this one up to the 'it is a high level magic item, it just is able to work' category.
Quite honestly, I'd prefer that, too, but I'd be delighted to hear something official from Jason, James or the others devs.
We really can't expect an official ruling for every possible way some player is going to try to cheesemonkey an item for a use clearly not laid out in the RAI. If they were printed out, it'd be a book larger than the Core Rules.
We're DMs we're supposed handle most of this stuff ourselves.
Oh, I know, but with an official word I could say "Hey, it's official" and wouldn't have to deal with griping by the player. :p Anyway, I think it won't work in dungeons in my campaign.
Oh, I know, but with an official word I could say "Hey, it's official" and wouldn't have to deal with griping by the player. :p Anyway, I think it won't work in dungeons in my campaign.
Quite honestly, I'd prefer that, too, but I'd be delighted to hear something official from Jason, James or the others devs.
We really can't expect an official ruling for every possible way some player is going to try to cheesemonkey an item for a use clearly not laid out in the RAI. If they were printed out, it'd be a book larger than the Core Rules.
We're DMs we're supposed handle most of this stuff ourselves.
Then it shouldnt work in your campaign. For your game there is a houseruled addendum with similar wording to things like enlarge person with regards to not enough space for something to expand. Thus its no longer somewhat ambiguous. Just make sure you tell the player this before he goes through the trouble of making one.
Ignoring RAW for the moment and considering this from a more story based viewpoint.
Perhaps the fortress in a box adapts to the environment it it released in? So under open sky you get a tower, but if it released in say a dungeon corridor you would get a length of fortified corridor. The walls, ceiling and floor would be reinforced vs attack. The normal furnishings etc. appear and the corridor is now closed off with stout gates complete with firing ports.
That's how I would call it anyway a bit like what happens when you direct troops into a building in the red alert games. Instant fortress.
But then this plays merry hell with RAW.
~will
The real question is what would happen if you released the fortress in open ocean?
Just to chime in with an out of RAW but literary basis. In one of those books involving a dual weilding drow there was a wizard with one of these items in the Underdark and his broke in the the ground and the ceiling. So according to written work it seems to be able to break through stone and so forth. So I would say let it go!
Doesn't the item specifically say that it explosively enlarges dealing 10d10 damage to everything nearby?
I would just apply that damage to the surrounding ceilings and such to see whether or not it breaks through. A castle ceiling is doomed, whereas a thick cave ceiling (with its thousands of hit points) may well bend the fortress like a Christmas tree in a small house (or else stop its expansion altogether).
Just to chime in with an out of RAW but literary basis. In one of those books involving a dual weilding drow there was a wizard with one of these items in the Underdark and his broke in the the ground and the ceiling. So according to written work it seems to be able to break through stone and so forth. So I would say let it go!
I assume you are referencing some 3.5 fiction? That doesn't apply anymore 100% with items of Pathfinder, as one my players found out to his chagrin yesterday with the windows from the Robe of Useful Items.
Magnuskn wrote:
"Kyle Schmaing wrote:
Just to chime in with an out of RAW but literary basis. In one of those books involving a dual weilding drow there was a wizard with one of these items in the Underdark and his broke in the the ground and the ceiling. So according to written work it seems to be able to break through stone and so forth. So I would say let it go!
I assume you are referencing some 3.5 fiction? That doesn't apply anymore 100% with items of Pathfinder, as one my players found out to his chagrin yesterday with the windows from the Robe of Useful Items."
Actually I am referencing R.A. Salvatore's novels- most written before 3.5 and many including this one I believe (Exile I think) written before 3.0- My response is not based upon any rules set but upon this item being used by a character in literature and in literature it worked just fine inside a contained space. :-)
Now yes this is a Forgotten Realms setting book and therefore may not be Pathfinder but then again I doubt an official rule is needed for this situation either... unless of course the players want to use an Instant Fortress as some sort of weapon... lols now I am considering the possibilities! :-)
Note However I am not a member of your group and do not know what style you like to play with. If you are worried about this ability messing up your dungeons I would just dissallow it in an area that cannot fit it. Like a room with 10ft high walls is just too small but maybe the dwarven stronghold with 30-40ft high may be big enough. :-)
Since it specifically does damage to anything standing over it when it enlarges...
As stated above, it does damage to the roof. If it breaks the roof, it keeps growing, does same damage to next roof. If not, apply the damage to the floor. If the floor breaks (and it might have already been damaged by the pillars of adamantine going down, if there's a room below) then the tower falls down a level and keeps growing until it can't grow anymore. Then I'd have it stop growing.
I'd also check to see if the dungeon floor can support the weight of the tower. If not, it crashes down until it hits ground that can and roots itself 10 feet into that.
Imagine calling up a 20 foot high adamantine tower on top of a two story wooden inn. Great way to destroy the inn completely.
Imagine calling up a 20 foot high adamantine tower on top of a two story wooden inn. Great way to destroy the inn completely.
Oh man...this could be fun...and here i never liked the instant small structure destroyer.
Not much can stop a Gargantuan Adamantine Spear! Mwa ha ha ha ha!
Actually I am referencing R.A. Salvatore's novels- most written before 3.5 and many including this one I believe (Exile I think) written before 3.0- My response is not based upon any rules set but upon this item being used by a character in literature and in literature it worked just fine inside a contained space. :-)
Now yes this is a Forgotten Realms setting book and therefore may not be Pathfinder but then again I doubt an official rule is needed for this situation either... unless of course the players want to use an Instant Fortress as some sort of weapon... lols now I am considering the possibilities! :-)Note However I am not a member of your group and do not know what style you like to play with. If you are worried about this ability messing up your dungeons I would just dissallow it in an area that cannot fit it. Like a room with 10ft high walls is just too small but maybe the dwarven stronghold with 30-40ft high may be big enough. :-)
Oh, R.A. Salvatore novels, even worse. Those are still following 2nd Ed. principles, with cherubic halflings and all that. :p
I think I'll disallow use in confined spaces, since I really don't want to deal with the hassle of dungeon destruction and additional adds. Not even to mention that the Fortress can be activated at will, without limited charges. OTOH its hitpoints don't replenish automatically, either, but it's just too much hassle.