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I have some questions regarding the Burn special monster ability and the general "catch on fire" rules.
First, the Burn ability...
Burn (Ex)
A creature with the burn special attack deals fire damage in addition to damage dealt on a successful hit in melee. Those affected by the burn ability must also succeed on a Reflex save or catch fire, taking the listed damage for an additional 1d4 rounds at the start of its turn (DC 10 + 1/2 burning creature's racial HD + burning creature's Con modifier). A burning creature can attempt a new save as a full-round action. Dropping and rolling on the ground grants a +4 bonus on this save. Creatures that hit a burning creature with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take fire damage as though hit by the burning creature and must make a Reflex save to avoid catching on fire.
Next, the catching on fire rules...
Catching on Fire
Characters exposed to burning oil, bonfires, and non-instantaneous magic fires might find their clothes, hair, or equipment on fire. Spells with an instantaneous duration don't normally set a character on fire, since the heat and flame from these come and go in a flash.
Characters at risk of catching fire are allowed a DC 15 Reflex save to avoid this fate. If a character's clothes or hair catch fire, he takes 1d6 points of damage immediately. In each subsequent round, the burning character must make another Reflex saving throw[b]. Failure means he takes another 1d6 points of damage that round. Success means that the fire has gone out—that is, once he succeeds on his saving throw, he's no longer on fire.
A character on fire may automatically extinguish the flames by [b]jumping into enough water to douse himself[b]. If no body of water is at hand, [b]rolling on the ground or smothering the fire with cloaks or the like permits the character another save with a +4 bonus.
Those whose clothes or equipment catch fire must make DC 15 Reflex saves for each item. Flammable items that fail take the same amount of damage as the character.
So....
1) The Burn special ability specifies an amount of time that the fire continues (1d4 rounds). The general 'catch on fire' rules do not specify a duration and instead suggest that the fire continues forever if no save is made. Is that true?
2) The Burn special ability specifies that the damage occurs at the start of the victims turn. When does the damage occur if the victim is not burning as a result of the Burn special ability, but due to having caught on fire due to other reasons? If it is the same, why not specify that in the catch on fire rules?
3) The Burn special ability says "A burning creature can attempt a new save as a full-round action" but the general catch on fire rules do not specify what sort of action is required, simply saying, "In each subsequent round, the burning character must make another Reflex saving throw." I am assuming it should be the same, but it is not stated, so I have no idea for sure.
4) The Burn special ability says "Creatures that hit a burning creature with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take fire damage as though hit by the burning creature and must make a Reflex save to avoid catching on fire." but the general catch on fire rules do not make this same statement. Does that mean that you can grapple or hug a character that is on fire due to something other than the Burn special ability, or, should that same sentence be present in the general catch on fire rules?
Disclaimer: All my answers will rely on RAW as best as I can see it.
1) Yes. The Burn ability states that the burning lasts 1d4 rounds while normal burning could be indefinite. However, since the static DC of normal burning is 15, and saving throws auto-succeed on a 20, that fire will eventually go out even if a character has a huge penalty to Reflex saves.
2) I cannot find a RAW ruling on this, but I would assume that the on-going damage occurs on the initiative that it was acquired. That is to say that if a bugbear is lit on fire during the fighter's turn, then the on-going damage (and Reflex save) happens on the fighter's turn. If the bugbear caught on fire on his own turn, then the save and damage would happen on his turn. Again, not RAW but simply my reasoning.
3) I would actually assume that it is not the same. I would say that the normal catch on fire Reflex save is a free action. Unless otherwise specified, saves are always free actions (which is why you can make them on other people's turns). Dropping prone to roll in the dirt (to gain the +4) would require a move action to drop prone, though.
4) As it is not present in the normal catch on fire rules, you can hug your burning friend all you want without any consequence. Heck, I might rule that if two or three people hugged a burning person at the same time, that it might just squelch the fire just like placing a heavy blanket over a fire does. Realistically, some sort of damage should be taken for hugging a normally burning person, but the rules do not say that, so it would be a (reasonable) houserule to do so.
1) The Burn special ability specifies an amount of time that the fire continues (1d4 rounds). The general 'catch on fire' rules do not specify a duration and instead suggest that the fire continues forever if no save is made. Is that true?
1) Yes. The Burn ability states that the burning lasts 1d4 rounds while normal burning could be indefinite. However, since the static DC of normal burning is 15, and saving throws auto-succeed on a 20, that fire will eventually go out even if a character has a huge penalty to Reflex saves.
Ok, I don't have an issue with this, I just wish it was stated in the general catching on fire section.
Ok. So the fire is indefinite until save is made if using general catch on fire rules and not the Burn monster ability.
2) The Burn special ability specifies that the damage occurs at the start of the victims turn. When does the damage occur if the victim is not burning as a result of the Burn special ability, but due to having caught on fire due to other reasons? If it is the same, why not specify that in the catch on fire rules?
2) I cannot find a RAW ruling on this, but I would assume that the on-going damage occurs on the initiative that it was acquired. That is to say that if a bugbear is lit on fire during the fighter's turn, then the on-going damage (and Reflex save) happens on the fighter's turn. If the bugbear caught on fire on his own turn, then the save and damage would happen on his turn. Again, not RAW but simply my reasoning.
I'm not as concerned so much about on which initiative the damage occurs (as I just assumed it happened on the same init that it originally occurred.) I am more interested in at what point during that initiative that the damage occurs, meaning, "at the start of the turn" or "at any point during that turn that is most convenient to the burning creature." For example, if the damage occurs at the start of the turn and the damage is sufficient to reduce the victim to below 0hp, then he will not be able to perform an action. If it occurs at any point during the turn, then he can. It just doesn't specify. I'd tend to say its the same as the Burn ability and happens at the beginning of the creatures turn, but would like something more concrete to back that up.
3) The Burn special ability says "A burning creature can attempt a new save as a full-round action" but the general catch on fire rules do not specify what sort of action is required, simply saying, "In each subsequent round, the burning character must make another Reflex saving throw." I am assuming it should be the same, but it is not stated, so I have no idea for sure.
3) I would actually assume that it is not the same. I would say that the normal catch on fire Reflex save is a free action. Unless otherwise specified, saves are always free actions (which is why you can make them on other people's turns). Dropping prone to roll in the dirt (to gain the +4) would require a move action to drop prone, though.
I can buy that, but again, it'd be nice if it was in the rules :(
4) The Burn special ability says "Creatures that hit a burning creature with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take fire damage as though hit by the burning creature and must make a Reflex save to avoid catching on fire." but the general catch on fire rules do not make this same statement. Does that mean that you can grapple or hug a character that is on fire due to something other than the Burn special ability, or, should that same sentence be present in the general catch on fire rules?
4) As it is not present in the normal catch on fire rules, you can hug your burning friend all you want without any consequence. Heck, I might rule that if two or three people hugged a burning person at the same time, that it might just squelch the fire just like placing a heavy blanket over a fire does. Realistically, some sort of damage should be taken for hugging a normally burning person, but the rules do not say that, so it would be a (reasonable) houserule to do so.
I'd say that huggers take damage as per the Burn ability, but I'm a mean s.o.b. lol
I wish the general catch on fire rules and the burn ability used the same mechanics. Or if they already do, that the general catch on fire rules didn't require looking up the Burn monster ability to know how it works.
runs into thread carrying a torch
tries to light thread on fire
lights self on fire instead, and runs screaming from thread