Would would happen or be required to change in order for me to alter 6 second rounds to 1 minute.
Round 1 - Fight!
I was thinking of doing this myself. In 1st Edition, it used to be that one round was one minute, and divided into ten 6 second segments.
If spell durations are adapted similarly, the only problem becomes movement. 30 feet base movement in 6 seconds works out to realistic speeds. But 30 feet per minute works out to extremely slow people. On the other hand, being able to move a base of 300 feet per round would dramatically alter combat.
On the other hand, one round for 6 seconds makes for very short fights, if compared to how many minutes fights typically last in the movies.
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What will you tell your low level fighter is the reason that only one of his swings can hit his opponent every 60 seconds?Would would happen or be required to change in order for me to alter 6 second rounds to 1 minute.
Round 1 - Fight!
Same as it was prevoously: You hit a lot but the roll repesents your effectiveness. It's not one swing, it's the difference between a couple of good solid hits and nickel and dime scrapes and close shaves.
Just curious as to why you'd want to change the length of the round? I also remember the 1 minute rounds from days of old and the NO END of complaints about folks not understanding what Paul Watson effectively explained above.
I think it would be alot of work for you and a lot of players that were on board for the change.
Utgardeloki also brings up some very big issues you'd have to deal with.
I'm not sure it would be worth it, but I don't know why your considering the change.
Have Fun out there!!
~ W ~
This thread makes me think of casting times and weapon speed factors :( Now my brain hurts.
This thread makes me think of casting times and weapon speed factors :( Now my brain hurts.
+1
One legit change: spell durations. Some spells currently last 1 round/level, others last 1 minute/level, yet others 10 min./level. Changing the round will alter the balance between short-term buffs (e.g. divine power), mid-duration buffs (the animal series), and long-term buffs. If you just bump everything up, so that 1 round->1 min, 1 min->10min, then where does 10 min go? If you push that up to the next logical slot, it's now 1 hour/level. See where this is going?
I'd probably go with the bump up on times. 1 -> 10 -> 60.
As for the reason, I know that I'm gonna get jumped on this one. Realism.
Bows are very realistically broken items. >.> That's what I'm trying to solve. lol.
I'd probably go with the bump up on times. 1 -> 10 -> 60.
As for the reason, I know that I'm gonna get jumped on this one. Realism.
Bows are very realistically broken items. >.> That's what I'm trying to solve. lol.
How are bows Broken, I think that for a game the bow is pretty realistic, but i would like know what you are thinking on this, I might change my mind
In our game, the bow gets all its positives + more, and none of its negatives. (By our game I mean D&D, Pathfinder, ETC...)
The crossbow and other ranger weapons get NONE of their positives and basically all their negatives.
Essentially that's it.
Aside from that fact that you do NOT fire 4+ arrows in six seconds without f@%#ing yourself up. IF at all possible in the first damned place to even go past 2.
That's the realism point. Thus I desire to fix this somehow and make it more realistic, I've thought of only allowing a certain amount of ranged attacks per round but players may get pissed. That's why I was thinking 1 minute rounds, so that it makes sense as to why they can fire so many.
Basically from what I've googled, read, and heard. You can fire an arrow in like 3 seconds, accurately from a back quicker I guess.
4+ arrows >.> 6 seconds.... doesn't compute... <.<
BTW 3 seconds is for a VERY GOOD archer. >.> Least from what I hear.
you right the bow gets all the love really, add str bonus and pretty fast shots,
I don't think that 4 shots in 6 sec is impossible in real life but in a fight you would have to be really Damn good. But changing the whole round system to fix the bow would be a lot of work. Not to say it would not be fun to try. Just jumping all the durations up one step might work, we did it in ad&d and I still play it so it might not be a bad thing
As for the bow, crossbow problem I have been thinking about make Crossbows with a str bonus like a composite bow but that sounds like a different thread
Sounds like what you really want is to change the rules for bows. If that's you're actual reason, changing the one thing that bugs you is normally easier then changing the world to make that one thing make sense to you.
As for changing the round length, one interesting solution I've seen (and I can't take credit for this, I just don't remember where I read it), was a response to the fact that while you can do most of what a character can do in one round in 6 seconds, you cannot do ten of those actions in 60 seconds. The solution was within combat, a round is 6-ish seconds. Outside of combat, you adjust it so that the total combat took a realistic time, usually 3 - 5 minutes.
The thought being that it doesn't really matter how long a round is. You can make it 12 seconds or 30 without impacting much of the rules. Four arrows in 12 seconds might be a bit more possible, as much as 8 monk attacks (or 7 TWF attacks) in one round might be.
Aside from thinking that Ken Loupe had a point buy then argued it horribly. I was not looking for such a response as I already know of the other realism issues within DnD/pathfinder, nor was I looking to strip it of all fantasy. I merely desired the bows to work a bit more realistically.
Something simple which didn't occur to me because I'm an idiot apparently. >.> Was the 12 second round. Thank you, Lazarus.
@ Loupe. level isn't that fantasy driven actually. It can be pretty realistic if you know what you're doing.
Say that I was well acquainted with an animal, say a dog, or a bird even. I can still be a level 1 commoner and call such animal to my side.
A rogue doing extra damage on a flank via precision damage to vital organs or such is also realistic for a level 1 character.
A professional soldier... you MAY have a point here, but I see it more as a half-professional soldier. So I'll still give it to you.
Yes, the wizard can "bend reality" not much at lvl 1, but fine. However, once again. Not talking about that aspect of fantasy.
Cleric can heal deadly wounds with power FROM his god, not faith in the god alone. Once again, not speaking about that aspect of fantasy.
I'm going to take a guess and say that Robin Hood never fired an arrow faster than 3 seconds, at least not consecutively to 4 arrows or more.
Once again the aspect of reality that I was speaking of -> Bows in DnD/Pathfinder. Not any other aspects of fantasy.
See this is what I hate about shi- you try and bring a little more realism into a game, and some people just jump out and throw the fantasy book at you. -Sigh- No offense to you really Loupe.
I apologize for the manner in which I've addressed this. Just I've had such conversations far too many times.
Is it really necessary to change everything to accommodate one perceived problem? If you change the length of the round, you will run into other problems as mentioned above. You will change how reality works for everyone except the bow user. Magic will obviously change but also consider casting times. What was once realistic (casting a spell in a few seconds) now is unrealistic because it takes roughly a minute. Movement will become unrealistic. Non-bow attacks become unrealistic. Everything changes.
In fantasy and mythology literature archers can do some amazing things. Firing two arrows on the same string, firing 3-4 arrows in a matter of seconds, ricocheting arrows, etc. None of them are realistic but they are all things that those who wish to emulate fantasy archers want to do. If you are going to allow barbarians to gain darkvision when they rage, fighters to get 7 attacks in a round, monks running 40-50 miles per hour (movement 90 at 4x speed), etc then I see no reason to be bothered by someone firing 4-5 arrows in 6 seconds.
How about this? Rounds go as normal, but at the end of the battle, roll 1d10 per round to find out how much time the battle actually took?
Which brings us back to the original reason for dropping the one minute round in the first place. A one minute round made movement rates woefully slow for an athletic human being.
I vote for the 12 seconds combat round.
To fix movement to this, allow players to move up to double their speed as per the charge rules, except that they do not have to attack someone.
Meaning they get a -2 penalty to their AC can move up to double their move in a straight line.
I'd nt apply the -2 penalty if the player takes two move actions and the second action he does not opt to double move, but attacks of oppurtunity while double moving would still attack the lower AC.
I don't think it has alot of impact on other rules to justify changing them further.
did somebody say THAC0?
TO HIT ARMOR CLASS ZERO MOTHAF$*~A!
<.< Good counter argument! However, the MAX level that a human would ever reach in reality (Our World) Is level 5.
http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/d&d-calibrating.html
What I was thinking for the 12 second round was merely allowing everyone to move at double their standard 6 second rates.
Thus a charge would be up to double that. >.>
120 ft in a round. >.>
So basically a double move action (no attack, no charge) would be 120 ft standard.
>.>