Hi. I looked everywhere for an avariel conversion into pathfinder and I am at a loss. A few sites say they are working on the various FR races, but they are unfinished with avariel. I have used the search function and found nothing on the first two pages of results, I am impatient!
So the thing about it is, is that in 3.5 the level adjustment was huge. Now it seems odd to keep it that high.
So for reference here is a half celestial at level 1 which is a CR +1
RACIAL ABILITIES
Natural Armor +1
Darkvision 60ft
Disease Immunity
+4 Save vs. Poison
Acid Resist 10
Cold Resist 10
Elec Resist 10
DR 5/magic
Spell resistance = 13
Fly speed 2 x Base Speed at Good Maneuverability (+4 Fly)
Smite Evil 1/Day
Cast Bless 1/Day
Cast Protection from Evil 3/Day
+4 bonus to any three abilities
+2 bonus to the other three abilities
Now assuming that you never gave them any increase, you kept the SR, the spells cast, the DR at exactly that. Then throughout the career it would have a CR of +1.
Now this seems like more than an avariel would have, and in the most recent edition its level adjustment was +3 I believe.
So…
Anyone want to help pin down a good conversion for the Avariel? No. oh… ok. Never mind then…
Seriously, lets do it.
So let me start the ball…
I think they need low light vision like a dragon. In the old 2nd edition they could see accurately for 1 mile, a little hard to roleplay so the dragon entry reads…
“They see four times as well as a human in dim light and twice as well in normal light.”
Maybe it could be reversed?
They see four times as well as a human in normal light and twice as well in dim light.
Thoughts? Additions? What do people think about ability scores?
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
How's this?
AVARIEL (WINGED ELF) RACIAL TRAITS
+2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -2 Constitution: Avariels are both agile and intuitive, but their body is frail.
Medium: Avariels are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed: Avariels have a base speed of 30 feet.
Flight Speed: Avariels have a flying speed of 50 feet with average maneuverability, as long as they do not carry more than a Medium load, are not wearing heavy armor, and are not fatigued or exhausted. An avariel’s wing span is typically 12 feet, and cannot fly in an area that does not allow them to fully extend their wings.
If avariels carry a heavy load or wear heavy armor, their flight speed drops to 30 feet.
Low-Light Vision: Avariels can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.
Elven Immunities: Avariels possess the elven immunity to magic sleep effects and get a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells and effects.
Elven Magic: Avariels receive a +2 racial bonus on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance like other elves. In addition, avariels receive a +2 racial bonus on Spellcraft skill checks made to identify the properties of magic items.
Keen Senses: Avariels receive a +4 racial bonus on Perception skill checks.
Armor Customization: Avariels must have their armor specially customized to allow them to use their wings for flight, and therefore pay an additional 50% of the armors base price.
Diving Charge: When flying, an avariel may make a dive attack, which functions just like a charge. To do so, the avariel must descend at least 30 feet and make a single attack with a piercing weapon. If the avariel makes a successful hit, he deals double damage.
Weapon Familiarity: Avariels are proficient with bolas, lassos, longswords, and rapiers, and treat any weapon with the word “elven” in its name as a martial weapon.
Languages: Avariels begin play speaking Common and Elven. Avariels with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Auran, Celestial, Draconic, Giant, Goblin, Orc, and Sylvan.
IIRC (but I could be wrong... it's been awhile since I actually looked at the original statblock), Avariel had a -4 adjustment to Constitution.
If you put that back into Elghinn's nicely done statblock, it could probably be used with no "level adjustment" (i.e., what in Pathfinder would be called a "powerful race"). I know -4 Con is harsh, but that's the tradeoff for being able to create a character that flies at such a low level (which is largely why Avariel had a steep LA to begin with).
IIRC (but I could be wrong... it's been awhile since I actually looked at the original statblock), Avariel had a -4 adjustment to Constitution.
If you put that back into Elghinn's nicely done statblock, it could probably be used with no "level adjustment" (i.e., what in Pathfinder would be called a "powerful race"). I know -4 Con is harsh, but that's the tradeoff for being able to create a character that flies at such a low level (which is largely why Avariel had a steep LA to begin with).
It's like a level adjustment. -4 on anything is bad enough. -4 to con is brutal. -2 is bad enough.
I'll chime in with the other 2 posters - your initial template seems to throw WAY too much onto them.
I like the toned down version a bit more, and the fact that it has more flight restrictions in general that are sensible.
I'm also liking that -4 Con suggestion ... they were *always* supposed to be quite weak and frail since they appeared in 2e, honestly. It was the "original" tradeoff for the race: flight and maneuverability, but at the cost of staying power (ie: hit points).
Good Stuff
I DID read it!
Yeah your ideas look more in line with the existing base races. I appreciate all the feedback. I guess I need to ignore CR adjustments of templates when trying to think about balance!
I doubt the OP still reads this, but this is what I did:
Elf, Avariel
+4 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom, –2 Constitution: Avariel have hollow bones, and as a result, are more fragile than humans. At the same time, they are gifted with a keen intuition and intellect, and an almost otherworldly grace.
Medium: Elves are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed: Elves have a base speed of 30 feet.
Fly (Ex): All avariel can fly at a speed of 50 feet with average maneuverability, as long as they do not carry more than a Medium load, are not wearing heavy armor and are not fatigued or exhausted. They have a wingspan of 12 feet and cannot fly in an area where they cannot fully extend their wings.
An avariel can make a dive attack. A dive attack is treated like a charge, but the avariel must descend a minimum of 30 feet and attack with a piercing weapon. If the hit is successful, it deals double damage. An avariel may use the run option while flying, but must remain flying in a straight line.
Low-Light Vision: Elves can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light. See Chapter 7.
Elven Immunities: Elves are immune to magic sleep effects and get a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells and effects.
Elven Magic: Elves receive a +2 racial bonus on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance. In addition, elves receive a +2 racial bonus on Spellcraft skill checks made to identify the properties of magic items.
Keen Senses: Elves receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception skill checks.
Weapon Familiarity: Avariel are proficient with bolas, lassos, longswords, and rapiers, and treat any weapon with the word “elven” in its name as a martial weapon.
Languages: Elves begin play speaking Common and Elven. Elves with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Auran, Celestial, Draconic,...
I like it, but I'd keep the +4 racial bonus to Perception. Also, where is the Longbow proficiency?
So is this a CR 1 race or a base race?
|
Unlike most other elves, Avariel used bolas and lassos more than they did longbows. I don't know why, I didn't design them back in 2nd Edition. But, they were automatically proficient with such weapons back then.
It had something to do with the notion that because they're winged they wouldn't be able to properly use a bow while flying. Thus avariel developed different racial weapon proficiencies: Bolas knock other winged things out of the sky (by tying up their wings) and lassos drag non-winged things into the sky (to later be dropped).
Personally I'd rather see spears and javelins, but whatchagonado.
It seems to me that winged creatures would make natural archers... I'm actually playing an Avariel Fighter (CR 1, Fighter 8) Archer in a PF game and he's frighteningly effective.
We did keep the +4 to Perception. He got a -4 to Con though.
One of my flying races is Small and uses Bows as Footbows when flying. They count as Large when flying.
Regarding the weapons, I've seen one write up of the avariel that says the muscles needed for flying oppose the muscles you use to draw a bow--you can't do both at the same time. OTOH, I've also seen plenty of avariel writeups that give them bow proficiency so who knows?
Just looking for "avariel stats" in Google results in many different statblocks, none like the other.
Although I don't like the whole thing, this version seems to propose not giving Avariel full flight until they reach 5 HD (until then, they can glide and they have limited flight if they begin at high altitudes to start with--i.e., they can fly around the cloud city but not launch from the ground). While I am not fully backing this idea, I think it's an interesting one to think about. I think again the biggest concern about Avariel is them flying in a normal kind of adventuring party at low level. Unless you're going to Aerie-fy them and cut off their wings, a nasty thing to do, this seems a fair solution. That way they come into their own, eventually gaining their full flight capability away from their high altitude homeland. Something just to chew on.
Regarding stat bonuses: IMO if you are keeping their +4 to Dex, then keep their -4 to Con. Again, I know it's harsh--but beyond balance it's also about reflecting WHY the stat adjustments were picked that way to begin with: they're supposed to have hollow bones. That makes them light and graceful and maneuverable and capable of snapping like twigs.
If you don't like the -4 to Con, then boost Dex only to +2 as well. I'd be inclined to just go then with a "standard" stat adjustment array--+2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Con.
As for the +4 vs +2 to Perception -- in 3.5 it was Elven senses coupled with a further bonus to spot for seeing things from long distances.
In Pathfinder, I would adjust it to:
Keen Senses: Avariel get a +2 to all Perception checks. Further, as Avariel have eagle-like vision, this bonus increases to +4 when trying to spot a creature from a long distance.
Adjust that language as necessary. Just a thought; I know generally Pathfinder moved away from sense-specific Perception checks after the hullaballoo over the sense-based keen senses racial abilities in Pathfinder beta (a hullaballo I agreed with).
ETA: One more thing: for Pathfinderization, all Avariel should get Fly as a class skill.
Thanks! I wasn't sure given how old the post was originally. Yeah, I've been running the Realms for 20+ years (from 1st to 2nd then to 3rd and now Pathfinder). I've done conversion for all the elves (except for the Aquatic Elf), the Gold Dwarf, both halfing races, the Fey'ri, the Tanarukk, two of the Saurials and the Genasi.
When it came to the Genasi, the Fey'ri and the Tanarukk, yes. For the most part, ignore the CR and focus on keeping it balanced. Well...the Fey'ri and the Tanarukk still have their CR's, but I dropped the HD for the Tanarukk and find it works better for him as if he was a beefy orc type.
I'm still working on the dragons, and hope to have them done soon. It's not a perfect conversion for all the monsters, but ones that I personally use myself.
I'd like to see your conversion of the Fey'ri
Interesting, you did something I was thinking of doing for reintroducing the Sun/Gold Elves by giving the fey'ri +4 int
I was looking at giving the Sun/Gold Elves: -2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con, +4 Int.
as for the DR on the fey'ri I was going with just DR5/cold iron.
|
There's one big weakness I like to throw onto my Avariel builds to balance them out a little and help reflect their various fears of and issues with fire, due to their feathers. Vulnerability to Fire (+50% damage) goes a long way to help balance them out.
I just think you need to stick a "cannot play this race before the average party level is 5th" proviso and then they're a playable CR +1 race, with the added vulnerability to fire.
|
|
Now that I know there is an elven counterpart to Tieflings (I avoided D&D for most of the 3.5 years and went to Pathfinder in the wake of 4.0), it raises the question of whether there is an elven counterpart to Aasimars.As per Darkon Slayer's request:
Fey’ri
They were in issue 350 of Dragon Magazine, the Celadrin. They look like elves with flame-red hair, gold eyes, and bronze skin.
A rough conversion would be as follows:
+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Con
Outsider (native) type - 3 RP (inc. darkvision 60 ft.)
Immune to sleep effects - 1 RP (ad hoc reduction from Elven Immunities)
weapon familiarity as elves - 2 RP
Resist fire 10 - 2 RP
Scorching Ray 1/day, CL = character level - 2 RP (maybe 3 RP, as it is a damage-inflicting spell)
+4 racial bonus on Perform (sing) checks - 3 RP (technically 4, but skill bonuses in general feel a bit costly to me)
+2 racial bonus to Perception checks - 2 RP (Perception is about the only skill where it's really worth 1 RP/point of bonus)
+1 racial bonus on Diplomacy and Wild Empathy checks that increases by +1 every 5 character levels (@ 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th) - 2 RP (ad hoc, you might up the price to 3 if you feel like it)
Automatic Languages - Celestial, Common, Elven; Bonus Languages - Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, Sylvan.
17 RP, debatably 19 RP if you want to get overly technical on the skill bonuses. (They were an LA +1 under 3.5 rules, so it seems about right.)
Has anyone built them with the ARG?