ok situation as follows, I am trying to convert a sorcerer in my party to pathfinder, it is a dwarven sorcerer rumored to be descended from a Titan-like servant of Moradin. Haven't actually established what kind of creature this is, it might be a Titan that pledged loyalty to Moradin (like the 3.5 version) a powerful Celestial servant or perhaps a demi-god that chose to serve.
Either way thematically it should be tied closely to Giants, Lightning and dwarven religion.
There isn't a bloodline that fits this exactly so I was trying to create one, haven't settled on a name yet, so lets call it Titanborn.
The player is a single class (battle)sorcerer lvl 12, with a base strength of 18. In a tough encounter he polymorphed into a giant shape (mountain king) nd unleashed pain upon his foes, occasionally tossing a lightning bolt or some other spells, generally fitting or made to fit the theme.
In pathfinder the polymorph spell is not usable to change into a giant-like shape ofcourse, giant form would be fitting but it is a 7th lvl spell, as far as I can see the only really 'powerful' use for the spell is changing into a troll to gain regeneration and rend.
If I made a Giant Form spell for lvl 5, without regeneration or rend otherwise following giant form I, would that be too powerful ?
I also considered making righteous might a bloodline spell for the Titanborn at lvl 5, though the DR good / evil I do not particulary like for a sorcerer.
I welcome any ideas or opinions to make this conversion as smooth as can be, I do not mind houseruling, but I prefer to keep houserules at a minimum, because I like the players to work within core to recreate their characters as much as able.
bump
In pathfinder the polymorph spell is not usable to change into a giant-like shape ofcourse, giant form would be fitting but it is a 7th lvl spell, as far as I can see the only really 'powerful' use for the spell is changing into a troll to gain regeneration and rend.If I made a Giant Form spell for lvl 5, without regeneration or rend otherwise following giant form I, would that be too powerful ?
I agree that Giant Form I is a pretty weak 7th level spell, outside of the troll's regeneration ability, although the fact that your equipment resizes is pretty nice.
Level 5 seems a little low, though, at least in comparison to the other polymorph spells.
In pathfinder the polymorph spell is not usable to change into a giant-like shape ofcourse, giant form would be fitting but it is a 7th lvl spell, as far as I can see the only really 'powerful' use for the spell is changing into a troll to gain regeneration and rend.If I made a Giant Form spell for lvl 5, without regeneration or rend otherwise following giant form I, would that be too powerful ?
I agree that Giant Form I is a pretty weak 7th level spell, outside of the troll's regeneration ability, although the fact that your equipment resizes is pretty nice.
Level 5 seems a little low, though, at least in comparison to the other polymorph spells.
Well enlarge person(a level 1 spell !), does that too.
I want a level 5 spell that improves upon this one, the leap from level 1 to level 7 is quite large with not so much improvement.
let me try write something reasonable up.
Spell Name :
Ogre Size
School transmutation; Level wizard/sorcerer 5
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range personal
Target you
Duration 1 minute/level (D)
This increase changes your size category to the next larger one. You gain a +4 size bonus to Strength and Constitution and take a –2 penalty to your Dexterity. You gain a +3 enhancement bonus to your natural armor. You also gain darkvision 60' and low light vision. This spell doesn’t change your speed.
This spell is basically enlarge person with a casting time of 1 standard action and range personal, aside from the semantics which might not be completely accurate this basically changes you into an ogre, a 5th lvl version of a 1st lvl spell. still seems a bit on the weak side, but this would be agreeable ?
I think the reason the giant spells are higher level is because you retain the ability to use all of your gear, skills, and feats. In the hands of a character built to take advantage, they can be devastating (see eldritch knight for details)
If you want to convert your character, I'd do one of two things:
1) Look at the cleric list. Divine Power and Righteous Might are balanced for their level.
2) Take a look at the homebrew message board. There's already a giant bloodline or two.
I looked for a sorcerer giant bloodline, but I dont think any have been created.. maybe I am just a bit retarded trying to find stuff with the search option though
I looked for a sorcerer giant bloodline, but I dont think any have been created.. maybe I am just a bit retarded trying to find stuff with the search option though
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/community/gaming/dnd/101NewPathfinderS orcererBloodlines&page=1&source=search#0
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/olderProducts/pathfind erRPGBeta/generalPrerelease/newSorcererBloodlines&page=1&source=sea rch#0
It's easy to find if you know where they are.
Wait...
A dwarf descendant of a titan?
Mind... boggling... Can't... reconcile...
If this really is the case, then I don't think it matters if the spell is "worth it" - to this short little stumpy descendent of towering mighty ancestors, it is absolutely positively guaranteed to be worth it to him
(Sheesh! doesn't anyone roleplay anymore?)
(that last bit was satire, not criticism)
Wait...
A dwarf descendant of a titan?
Mind... boggling... Can't... reconcile...
If this really is the case, then I don't think it matters if the spell is "worth it" - to this short little stumpy descendent of towering mighty ancestors, it is absolutely positively guaranteed to be worth it to him
(Sheesh! doesn't anyone roleplay anymore?)
(that last bit was satire, not criticism)
well, you know dwarves like things BIG, ever seen those dwarven halls.. ? I think they are traumatized by their size really ;-).
Same deal with dwarven avatars.. at least in 2nd edition, they always appeared pretty much giant sized.
Note that giant form I is a 7th level spell not because of the size increase but because of +6 Str, +4 Con, and +4 natural armor that stacks with enhancement bonuses, plus any of the following abilities that apply to a giant of that type: regeneration 5, rock catching, rock throwing, and elemental immunity or resistances.
Personally, I'd say just give the Titanborn bloodline righteous might as a bonus spell at 11th level. This would both be balanced and fit thematically (as the titans are at least semi-divine).
Note that giant form I is a 7th level spell not because of the size increase but because of +6 Str, +4 Con, and +4 natural armor that stacks with enhancement bonuses, plus any of the following abilities that apply to a giant of that type: regeneration 5, rock catching, rock throwing, and elemental immunity or resistances.
Personally, I'd say just give the Titanborn bloodline righteous might as a bonus spell at 11th level. This would both be balanced and fit thematically (as the titans are at least semi-divine).
yes, I can see why.. even though I still consider it a bit weak, aside from the regeneration, also I don't like troll to be the default shape for giant form, sometimes fire or frost giant might be ok, though the immunity is a double edged sword.
I was thinking to add following spells to the bloodline, bypassing giant form I 3 spells to increase size more or less evenly divided across the levels seems enough :
1) enlarge person
2) bull's strength
3) rage
4) shout
5) righteous might DR/Evil
6) chain lightning
7) summon nature's ally VII (giants and elementals)
8) giant form II
9) summon nature's ally IX (giants and elementals)
class skill : knowledge(nature)
Bloodline Arcana : Any spell cast from your sorcerer spell list increasing strength, constitution or size is automatically extended as if by the extend spell metamagic feat.
1st) you gain a slam attack dealing 1d4 damage + 1.5 times strength, at 5th level this attack counts as magic, 7th it becomes 1d6, at 11th lvl it deals 1d6 additonal electrical damage for 3 rounds + cha modifier per day, these rounds need not be consecutive.
3rd) resist electricity 5, +2 save vs pertrification, +1 natural armor bonus
9th) resist electricity 10, +4 save vs petrification, +2 natural armor bonus
9th, 13th and 17th) +2 str
15th) powerful build, you can wield weapons one size larger without penalty and natural attacks deal damage as if you were one size larger.
You also calculate your CMB and CMD as if you were one size category larger. You also gain + 10'movement (landspeed only)
20th)Immune electricity, petrification; Resist cold 10, fire 10, DR 5 cold iron or evil
This is losely based on a titan as Azata, as a wild force of nature I thought it would be a good choice to complete the bloodlines powers and abilities. So not quite the titan as described in 3.5 monster manual or a giant subrace, though it has some crossover with giants thematically, so I did allow them to be summoned with nature's ally.
I think 7th level is okay. 5 would definitely be too low!
Let's compare it to righteous might, a spell that does similar things:
Giant Form / Righteous Might
Duration: minutes/rounds
Str: +6/+4
Con: +4/+4
Dex: -2/-2
Natural Armour: +4/+2
Other benefits:
Giant Form I:
Low-light vision.
Optional: Darkvision 60, rend 2d6, regen 5, rock catching, rock throwing (60', 2d6). Resistance 20 to elements (but also vulnerability)
Righteous Might:
DR 5/good (or evil), later DR 10
That DR is the only thing that speaks for righteous might. Even without the optional stuff, giant form is more powerful, as you get a better AC, higher strength, and all that for ten times as long! You get to stay in that form for at least 13 minutes, often enough for several encounters. The resistances can be more useful than the DR (depending on the situation, of course), and if you do go the troll path, the regeneration is more useful than any DR. Especially if you use other magic to get you resistances, buffers or immunities to acid and/or fire.
I think 7th level is okay. 5 would definitely be too low!
Let's compare it to righteous might, a spell that does similar things:
Giant Form / Righteous Might
Duration: minutes/rounds
Str: +6/+4
Con: +4/+4
Dex: -2/-2Natural Armour: +4/+2
Other benefits:
Giant Form I:
Low-light vision.
Optional: Darkvision 60, rend 2d6, regen 5, rock catching, rock throwing (60', 2d6). Resistance 20 to elements (but also vulnerability)Righteous Might:
DR 5/good (or evil), later DR 10That DR is the only thing that speaks for righteous might. Even without the optional stuff, giant form is more powerful, as you get a better AC, higher strength, and all that for ten times as long! You get to stay in that form for at least 13 minutes, often enough for several encounters. The resistances can be more useful than the DR (depending on the situation, of course), and if you do go the troll path, the regeneration is more useful than any DR. Especially if you use other magic to get you resistances, buffers or immunities to acid and/or fire.
yes, you are right, though going from the bestiary you will not have a free pick of abilities.. it will be iether troll, forst giant or fire giant. I agree it is a bit too powerful for 5th, 6th possibly.. either way I decided to sidestep it by including righteous might in the bloodline, and just skipping giant form I.