Yeah yeah, come back once you realize they take half damage from channel positive energy too.
Also I certainly don't remember Shadows being weak against light based attacks in 3rd edition D&D either, nor does the d20 SRD.
Nor in 1E or 2E, either. So, yes, good job, Paizo...for sticking to precedent!
...except the entry for searing light doesn't bother to say what type of damage it is, so being incorporeal, the shadow gets to subtract half that damage. 14 damage.
Though this does surprise me. It does seem kind of wrong that "fearful souls" would gain their "incorporial" damage resistance from a spell specifically designed to deal with Undead.
...except the entry for searing light doesn't bother to say what type of damage it is, so being incorporeal, the shadow gets to subtract half that damage. 14 damage.Though this does surprise me. It does seem kind of wrong that "fearful souls" would gain their "incorporial" damage resistance from a spell specifically designed to deal with Undead.
Basically it is a streamlining of the previous mechanic, allowing for a 50 % miss chance, I guess half damage is preferable.
That said I would have liked it if all energy damage would get some sort of type associated with it.. even if it is just light.. though light doesnt usually damage anything.. so maybe it is fire damage.. or positive energy, though that would heal.. I prefer to just call it fire damage personally.
...except the entry for searing light doesn't bother to say what type of damage it is, so being incorporeal, the shadow gets to subtract half that damage. 14 damage.Though this does surprise me. It does seem kind of wrong that "fearful souls" would gain their "incorporial" damage resistance from a spell specifically designed to deal with Undead.Basically it is a streamlining of the previous mechanic, allowing for a 50 % miss chance, I guess half damage is preferable.
That said I would have liked it if all energy damage would get some sort of type associated with it.. even if it is just light.. though light doesnt usually damage anything.. so maybe it is fire damage.. or positive energy, though that would heal.. I prefer to just call it fire damage personally.
Actually, given what Searing Light does, it should be "Positive Energy."
(Which, like Channel Positive Energy, should not be reduced by Incorporial Undead.)
Mr. bitters wrote:
"...except the entry for searing light doesn't bother to say what type of damage it is, so being incorporeal, the shadow gets to subtract half that damage. 14 damage.
Good job, paizo. Shadows are not only not vulnerable to light, they are *resistant* to it."
Actually unless I am mistaken spell damage already bypasses incorporeal nature. Unless specifically mentioned otherwise (such as a spell saying it does bludg. or pierc. damage) I would rule the spell as obviously an energy attack of some nature and therefore the Shadow in question takes full damage. Maybe not the extra for vulnerability to bright light but def. full spell damage.
brreitz wrote:
"Makes sense to me. Shadows aren't made of dark, they're made of fearful souls. And even if they were made of dark, they would require light to exist. If they cast their own shadow, one might even expect a shadow to get stronger and more defined!"
I have to disagree on this point as brighter illumination reduces how much area shadows can cover and use... as this creature is not "made of shadows" I don't think they take extra damage but I am pretty sure they would be most uncomfortable in this spell's area, much like a daylight spell.
Spells don't bypass incorporeality unless otherwise noted. From the PRD, Universal Monster Rules entry:
Incorporeal (Ex) An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from a corporeal source (except for channel energy). Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead. Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage only have a 50% chance of affecting an incorporeal creature. Force spells and effects, such as from a magic missile, affect an incorporeal creature normally.
I'd just houserule this so that searing light bypasses incorporeality. Simple enough to fix.
Spells don't bypass incorporeality unless otherwise noted. From the PRD, Universal Monster Rules entry:
Incorporeal (Ex) An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from a corporeal source (except for channel energy). Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead. Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage only have a 50% chance of affecting an incorporeal creature. Force spells and effects, such as from a magic missile, affect an incorporeal creature normally.
I'd just houserule this so that searing light bypasses incorporeality. Simple enough to fix.
Light is not corporeal, qed, it bypasses incorporeal damage resistance. no?
Light is not corporeal, qed, it bypasses incorporeal damage resistance. no?Spells don't bypass incorporeality unless otherwise noted. From the PRD, Universal Monster Rules entry:
Incorporeal (Ex) An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from a corporeal source (except for channel energy). Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead. Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage only have a 50% chance of affecting an incorporeal creature. Force spells and effects, such as from a magic missile, affect an incorporeal creature normally.
I'd just houserule this so that searing light bypasses incorporeality. Simple enough to fix.
In a scientific sense, light's not corporeal per se. In this forum though, you have to ask what the Pathfinder definition of 'corporeal' is. Me, I wasn't trying to apply logic so much as find a simple solution. After all, heat, sound, and light aren't corporeal, so should sonic damage also bypass incorporeality? I'd say no.
Lathiira wrote:
"In a scientific sense, light's not corporeal per se. In this forum though, you have to ask what the Pathfinder definition of 'corporeal' is. Me, I wasn't trying to apply logic so much as find a simple solution. After all, heat, sound, and light aren't corporeal, so should sonic damage also bypass incorporeality? I'd say no."
I swore that in 3.ed RAW energy attacks automatically hit incorporeal creatures. Then again this was 3.ed and not PF and I may have this completely wrong but I think incorporeal creatures should take energy damage such as fire, cold, elec, and yes sonic... No one is immune to sonic, not even the 3.ed dieties, they had to take resistance lolz
:-)
Lathiira wrote:
"In a scientific sense, light's not corporeal per se. In this forum though, you have to ask what the Pathfinder definition of 'corporeal' is. Me, I wasn't trying to apply logic so much as find a simple solution. After all, heat, sound, and light aren't corporeal, so should sonic damage also bypass incorporeality? I'd say no."I swore that in 3.ed RAW energy attacks automatically hit incorporeal creatures. Then again this was 3.ed and not PF and I may have this completely wrong but I think incorporeal creatures should take energy damage such as fire, cold, elec, and yes sonic... No one is immune to sonic, not even the 3.ed dieties, they had to take resistance lolz
:-)
it was the same in 3.x you had 50 % chance to miss.. unless force
Light is not corporeal, qed, it bypasses incorporeal damage resistance. no?
It is corporeal -- it is stopped by walls, creatures, and other material things. Incorporeal things are not stopped by this stuff.
Duh. You're supposed to attack the Darkness with magic missile.
(Made in all good humor, with no offense to the OP. :) )
If what you are looking for is a fluff explanation for the mechanics present, I would say that Shadows are made of such malevolent, supernatural darkness that even a spell like Searing Light has difficulty penetrating their evil gloom. (And that's the thing about providing descriptors... you can make a fluff argument for why the ability should work the way you think it does, and I can make one for why it should work a different way, and the arguments both have roughly equal weight, probably.)
As for "is this fair"? I don't know. I would probably say yes--incorporeal creatures are supposed to be very hard to hurt, even Shadows. They have other weaknesses; they're supposed to provide a different kind of challenge than other monsters. The fact that Searing Light will do the improved damage dice vs. them is pretty good, actually, even if the damage does get halved. It still hurts them; that's a valuable thing when you think about it.