Okay, not actually leather armor made of mithral, but something equivalent. I like the idea of Rogues wearing leather armor, but with mithral chain shirts being so much better once they can afford them Rogues stop wearing leather. So I was thinking of allowing leather armor to be made of some other type of material that provides the same basic bonus to leather armor that mithral provides to metal armor.
So I have two questions. What material should this be? And, do you see any balance issues?
Creative Director
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Okay, not actually leather armor made of mithral, but something equivalent. I like the idea of Rogues wearing leather armor, but with mithral chain shirts being so much better once they can afford them Rogues stop wearing leather. So I was thinking of allowing leather armor to be made of some other type of material that provides the same basic bonus to leather armor that mithral provides to metal armor.
So I have two questions. What material should this be? And, do you see any balance issues?
This would basically be mithral scale male or perhaps a mithral breastplate.
Well, leather armor is already extremely light on penalties. Mithril-ish leather armor (difficult to imagine), wouldn't do much other than increase the max dex even higher, reduce the armor check penalty (oh wait), and make it's arcane spell failure nil. I suppose cutting the weight in half is a good thing, but other than some sort of odd flavor that makes me think of mithril cattle, I can't see why one would do this.
So I was thinking of allowing leather armor to be made of some other type of material that provides the same basic bonus to leather armor that mithral provides to metal armor.
Leather armor already has a -0 armor check penalty, so that doesn't apply. So you mean something that increases the maximum Dex modifier, lowers the arcane failure chance and lowers weight?
EDIT: ninja'ed
The question is whether or not you can make something so good that Rogues wouldn't still just choose Mithral Chain Shirts.
And there is some stuff in Races of the Wild in 3.5.
Okay, not actually leather armor made of mithral, but something equivalent. I like the idea of Rogues wearing leather armor, but with mithral chain shirts being so much better once they can afford them Rogues stop wearing leather. So I was thinking of allowing leather armor to be made of some other type of material that provides the same basic bonus to leather armor that mithral provides to metal armor.
So I have two questions. What material should this be? And, do you see any balance issues?
I can't see how this would unbalance much of anything - unless you're planning on beefing up the coverage to make it +4 armour *and* allow massive dex bonuses with no armour penalty.
If, however, you're just trying to make leather armour that has no AC penalties and allows crazy-high max dex bonuses, I think that's perfectly reasonable and balanced. I'd proabably say you want to stick with leather, just make it from the hide of a magical beast that you feel is appropriate (and is common enough that the stuff wouldn't be impossible to find, while not being so common that noone goes for cow anymore). You could probably even double it up and allow it to affect hide armour too.
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If I could think of a creature that's innately "light" and has a discernible hide I would suggest that as the source. If not that, house-rule in some kind of druid spell (with an effect modeled after Ironwood, but a different "template" added to the item.
As for balance, I see no real problems. Any of the leathers with as high as +5 enhancement could be replaced by a +8 bracer (though for a higher cost) as far as the armor is concerned.
Okay, not actually leather armor made of mithral, but something equivalent. I like the idea of Rogues wearing leather armor, but with mithral chain shirts being so much better once they can afford them Rogues stop wearing leather. So I was thinking of allowing leather armor to be made of some other type of material that provides the same basic bonus to leather armor that mithral provides to metal armor.
So I have two questions. What material should this be? And, do you see any balance issues?
So basically you are asking if it is A balanced to allow armor that grants a +2 bonus, +8 max dex, 0 armor check penalty and 0 spell failure for the cost of 1160 gp. And B Flavor wise what should this armor be made of?
A - Sure, why the heck not. I see nothing unbalancing about this at all. Even the 0% spell failure is a non issue because by the time they can get this wizards can put up mage armor much of the day anyway.
B - Hmmm...think of a creature known for being toughskined, but not big or hefty. Something like Lion Leather, or if you want more fantastical, Harpy Hyde.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how this would be like mithral scale male or a mithral breastplate.
The primary advantage of course would be the higher allowed Dex bonus. A mithral chain shirt has a maximum ac of 4 +6 Dex = 10. Leather has 2 +6 Dex = 8. So now the sneaky rogue is trying to hide in shining silver armor, and doing it just as well as the leather clad rogue because there is no ACP. If the rogue could wear leather that was AC +2 but allowed up to +8 Dex it would equal out as long has his Dex was high enough.
Some trouble I see is that a wizard might buy +5 leather armor for 26,160gp instead of paying 49,000gp for bracers of armor +7. Heck it is cheaper than bracers of armor +6 and provides better protection. Maybe I should not allow it to remove the arcane spell failure chance?
And there is sill the problem of what to call it. Dragonhide has already been used, and it replaces metal armor, just like all the other materials.
So, for example:
Griffon Leather: Leather made from the hide of a griffon is unnaturally light and durable when compared to that of other beasts. However, such armour is extremely rare due not only to the difficulty in hunting such animals, but also the peculiarities of the tanning process. [Insert gathering rules here, say something about how the skin must be undamaged, so edged weapons reduce the usefulness, a large size griffin only really gets you enough armour to make a small-sized suit, you need to treat it with special oils or magic right away, etc. And, of course, working with it also requires more of the oil, which means only the best workers can do it, blah, blah, flavor flavor...]
Leather or Hide armors made from Griffon Leather are automatically masterwork, and reduce the normal armour check penalties of the armour by 3, while increasing the maximum dexterity by 2. Because of its durability, the armour is thinner and thus lighter, reducing the weight by 50% while maintaining the same durability. Arcane casters wearing armor made of Griffin Leather have their arcane failure chance reduced by 10%.
Light armor: +2,250 ; Medium armor: +6,250
How about something like this:
Dire Leather
This leather is made from the skin of a dire animal. A large dire animal provides enough material for one medium set of armor or two small sets of armor, a medium dire animal provides enough material for one small set of armor. Studded leather armor may be made of of dire leather with mithral studs for the same benefit. Spell failure chances for armors made from dire leather are decreased by 5%, maximum Dexterity bonuses are increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 1 (to a minimum of 0).
An item made from dire leather weighs half as much as the same item made from standard leather.
Light armor made from dire leather costs an additional 500gp. Medium armor cost an additional 2000gp.
Edit: Apparently I was putting up my version the same time as Tilnar.
Edit2: Included suggestions from below.
How about something like this:
Dire Leather
This leather is made from the skin of a dire animal. A dire bear provides enough material for one large set of leather armor, a dire wolf provides enough material for one medium set of leather armor. Studded leather armor may be made of of dire leather with mithral studs for the same benefit. Spell failure chances for armors made from dire leather are decreased by 5%, maximum Dexterity bonuses are increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 1 (to a minimum of 0).An item made from dire leather weighs half as much as the same item made from other metals.
Leather armor made from dire leather costs an additional 500gp. Studded leather and hide armor cost an additional 750gp.
Considering you're reducing the benefits, I think that's perfectly reasonable -- though I'd tie the armour gathered to the size of the dire animal (plus, really, then you can have barbarians running around in Dire Wolverine, which is so appropriate for a raging class), and of course, tie cost to the size and weight of the suit by category. But then, that's me.
Also, I'd probably up the cost a little more, since that should be including Masterwork - but 750 light, 2,250 medium wouldn't suck.
EDIT: Also, no reason in the world your game couldn't have both - so there's something "more exotic" to aspire to, even.
Tilnar's example is pretty good, though I think a little pricey.
How about just:
Light - 500 gp
Medium - 2000 gp
Heavy(?) - 4500 gp
Edit: Ninja'd by the OP with the exact same stats, and even price for light!
Tilnar's example is pretty good, though I think a little pricey.
How about just:
ACP reduced by 1
Max Dex increased by 2
ASF reduced by 5% Light - 500 gp
Medium - 2000 gp
Heavy(?) - 4500 gpEdit: Ninja'd by the OP with the exact same stats, and even price for light!
I took your suggestion for the medium armor though. :-)
If you don't mind looking up old 3.0 books, the Arms and Equipment guide had "elven leaf" armors (IIRC, they were called bronzeleaf and darkleaf) that did to leather, basically what mithral did to metal armor.
Fluffwise, they were giant leaves from the elven forest layered and alchemically treated to be tough as leather, but extremely flexible.
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Yep leafweave and darkleaf armors...armor made from leaves and tree bark :P . They increased max dex +1, reduce armor check by 1 and reduced ASF by 5%. It was 750 extra for light armor...so honestly it wasn't quite worth it compared to mithril. There really should be a leather version of mithril though since basically as it stands, metal armor rules and anyone who wants to use leather based armor for character concept is rather hosed in comparison.
If I remember correctly, Dragon Magazine 233. Shadow Weave or something of the like. It's exactly like mithril regarding bonuses, gives a bonus to Stealth and the ASF only works when in Dim light. It's AWESOME. Liked it a lot when I saw it. The story of the item is cool too.
Dragon 322.
Give us some stats for shark leather?
I too am a fan of Rogues in leather armor. It was refreshing back when RotRL came out to see a level 14 Merisiel in Spires of Xin-Shalast still wearing studded leather in her pregen stats. Rogues wearing metal armor always just struck me as not exactly fitting flavor wise.
the only metal armor i can see rogues wearing is a chain shirt. i can also see padding or cloth armors being used as well. but nonmetal armors need a mithril equivalent too. maybe serpentscale bikinis for our female ocean druids.
Since Studded Leather contains metal studs, you could make a case for a Mithral Studded Leather. Then you would have +3 Armor, +7 Dex, with no armor check penalty and 5% spell failure.
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Yeah, just pick a critter that would justifiably have tough yet light hide (griffons work because they are flying critters, and could be assumed to have lighter frames than one would expect, given their size).
Tweak the ability to domesticate / breed in captivity those critters to justify whatever price point you think is balanced and go for it.
second skin leather made from doppelganger hide, it might even give a bonus to disguise / hide checks.