I allowed myself to be talked into it because the trapfinder wasn't often around. Oh, why did I do it? Please help me be less useless.
Currently:
Rogue3/Wiz3/AT1
(caster level 4)
Str 12, Dex 20, Int 16.
Feats:
1st: Two Weapon Fighting
3rd: Improved Unarmed Strike (for simultaneous TWF and spells)
5th: Arcane Strike
7th: ??
Also, Finesse Rogue and Scribe Scroll from class features, and Skill Focus (Disable Device) from being half-elf.
Mostly, I cast mage armor and shocking grasp (touch spell I can get sneak attack on), also memorizing Scorching Ray and Blindness (in case I can't get flank).
I'm looking, particularly, for a 7th level feat, although suggestions for spells or equipment would be welcome as well.
I carry a longspear for a reach weapon, but my DM has ruled that I can only threaten with whatever I've used last (either longspear OR unarmed strike/touch spell) so Combat Reflexes is less than compelling. We don't have access to Complete Arcane, so no Practiced Spellcaster for me, and no PF Traits, so my CL is pretty much stuck. There's no more Improved Natural Weapon for monks, so probably not for Unarmed Attack, so that's out. I'm tempted a little by Improved Init (as I usually am), but my init is already +5 and I never go before the monsters and I don't know that the extra +4 would help much. If it did, I'd get more sneak attack with Scorching Ray. Improved Familiar isn't very helpful at this level (I currently have a hawk to help me find traps).
Fleet? Skill Focus Acrobatics? I actually have three feats to take before I can take Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (base attack like a wizard), so... Dodge+Mobility? Bleh.
Right so... The two weapon fighting... not the best choice in the world for an AT. If you can re-train those feats i would.
Did you specialize? What school?
For feats I'm always fond of Nimble Moves -- without it you can't five foot step in difficult terrain and that can kill a wizard. Improved Initiative is always nice so I would recommend it.
For spells I generally recommend Chill Touch. It lasts multiple rounds, can deliver sneak attack is negative energy so doesn't have to worry about energy resistance and can deal strength damage. It's well rounded for an AT (since when you have sneak attack you'll do 4d6 negative energy damage on a touch attack).
Color spray is still useful (just not as much so)-- it stuns any foe and that means they drop their weapons. Mirror image will help you on the Defense side.
I would change the familiar to a Monkey if able. A monkey on your back can hand you stuff out of your handy haversack saving you the time of drawing things out yourself, and since it has hands it can also use Disable device meaning it can aid other for you all the time (also the bonus to acrobatic checks is nice). With the climb speed it is a efficient scout too.
Toughness wouldn't hurt you, and spell penetration is something you are going to want soon too.
On the plus side you've made it through the hard part of the AT -- from here on you will continue to improve both your spells and your sneak attack and get several nice abilities to boot.
In the long run Combat Expertise, Improved Feint and Greater Feint would be good choices.
With Improved Feint you can get your sneak attack touch spells off easier (since they are flat footed they you don't even need to cast defensively) with sneak attack damage and Greater Feint works at range. Since either way all you need is a move action to feint you'll still be able to cast the spells you want.
Longer term thoughts could involve a huge portion of your feats but Dazzling Display + Stunning Defense is a good combo to deny things their dex bonus to you.
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I've personally always thought of ATs as a ranged class. They specialize in doing REALLY BIG with spells that have a ranged touch. If you are allows access to WotC's Spell Compendium (or Complete Arcane), then look up the 1st level Lesser Orbs. If you don't then, Scorching Ray is your bread and butter. To supplement your daily spell slots, pick up a wand in your default ranged nuke spell.
Basically, you either stack +hide modifiers so you can effectively "snipe", or you get your hands on greater invis. Either way you end up being able to sneak attack with spells pretty effectively.
At high levels, look into Telekinesis. Hitting someone with a flying horse and dealing sneak attack (remember that a few rounds a day, ANYTHING can be a sneak attack for you) is one of the more memorable D&D experiences I've had (anvils work really well too).
Since you are ranged, for feats, Precise Shot is essential. After that, talk to your GM to see which ranged spells they are willing to apply to spells. In short, anything you can do to increase your +hit is likely good (including Weapon Focus). You need to worry less about saves and spell pen, since most ranged touch spells ignore both.
For sniping the Mind Blank spell becomes mandatory. Without it even greater invisibility isn't enough since see invisibility will find you -- however with Mind Blank all divinations fail and you can stay invisible hitting every round.
Personally I like a good mix of melee and ranged on my AT -- it keeps the opponent's guessing and not wanting to stay close or far away.
I've personally always thought of ATs as a ranged class.
This. The AT is just a wizard with Sneak Attack and more skill points. Your BaB will lag badly enough that the TWF tree isn't fun. However, you can get into the Rapid Fire/Multishot tree for extra attacks. The ranged rogue problem crops its head, though...hard to get Sneak Attacks with ranged fire (yeah, Invisibility will get you ONE attack).
Skirmishing might be a better option (Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack) if you want to melee. Get in, hit, get out. Easier to get sneak attacks and you're not hanging right beside something like you would if you were trying to get in full TWF attacks.
Improved Unarmed is...meh. Quick Draw would serve you just as well - carry a few extra daggers (drop them if you need to cast a spell). As for Arcane Strike...it's not bad, but the 3 caster level lag makes it not great, and you probably need bonuses to hit than damage
But, if you have to deal with what you've got so far...Leadership is a 7th level feat. Get a 5th level Fighter to be your meat shield. Otherwise, yeah, Improved Initiative is pretty much a must. You MUST go first in the surprise round to do sneak attack damage (Quick Draw is good for this too...win initiative, quick draw and throw dagger, 1D4+STR+Sneak Attack Damage...at the very least there should be ONE target that's flat footed to you).
ATs will never be damage-machines, though. Buffing and utility is probably a better way to go with your spells than touch attacks - remember, you're as crunchy as a wizard is (okay, 3 more HP on average), so play defensively.
Chill Touch is ok if I can't hit standard AC; its damage compares unfavorably per round otherwise. The Str damage is... well, not going to happen with the mobs we fight and my Int.
My DM doesn't allow assist on Disable Device, but I'm considering Improved Familiar anyway and getting an elemental. Earth glide will be good for scouting and defense, and he'll be able to use items, even fight a little. I'm a little afraid my DM might think I'm up to something, though.
I have no problem flanking in melee, most often with folks who give me +damage.
Not sure I have the Cha for Feint, but Greater Invis is definitely on the program both as a spell and a Trickster ability, so that's almost as cool. I really should pick up Point Black and Precise, maybe Spell Penetration too. Too bad Blindness is Necromancy, else maybe I could convince the gnome to cast it.
Oh, specialized in Transmutation. I'm not a Wizard long enough to get any of the really cool powers, my Con was odd, and Telekinetic Fist gives me a quick ranged touch in case I win initiative. (Which is how I know I never have within sneak attack range, since I've never used it.) And the spells are okay.
My advice, see if you can play a beguiler instead.
Nondetection is a nice combo with Imp. Invis. Many anti-invisibility effects are divinations, and you've got a chance to shut those down.
You can also build a spring attacking trickster.
But the problem with TWF is that you'll just miss twice a round. The poor BAB, the penalties to use two weapons, the relatively bad HP, the terrible fort save = all reasons not to be in the front line.
I allowed myself to be talked into it because the trapfinder wasn't often around. Oh, why did I do it? Please help me be less useless.
I'm running an AT that is doing well, but I tend to enjoy playing a support caster role - not looking to dish out damage. If you want to do damage, play a fighter.
Feats: point blank shot, precise shot, combat casting, finesse rogue (obviously). "Arcane Knack (I think)" trait - the one that gives you +2 CL when you multiclass. Shame they've removed "Practised Caster".
Became a specialist illusionist - extra spell slot for Blur and Improved Invis now that we've hit lvl 10. Bonded item for that little bit of extra versatility. Would like more slots - would love a ring of wizardry, or a Mnemonic Enhancer once per day item.
At level 7, craft wand and now craft wondrous item - a moneysaver.
Points to note:
According to the spell description, Blur grants concealment. A rogue can make a stealth check if they have concealment. Our DM bought it - we play it as "because the rogue is blurred, the enemy cannot see when the attack is coming and takes SA damage". (Perhaps the rogue should be making sleight of hand rather than stealth checks).
Acid splash/ray of Frost is ranged touch. You sneak attack with it if you are within 30'. You can cast it all day long. At low levels, these are your bread and butter. I want Sniper Goggles.
An AT is a wizard. A wizard can prepare as many spells as they like! How/why? A scroll *is* a prepared spell. I spend all my cash on scrolls with utility spells: Mount, Animate Rope, Floating Disk. All the spells in your book that you wouldn't want to carry about prepared. Water breathing. Create Treasure Map. If you don't want to play a mechanic, go sorcerer. My scrolls are on small post-it notes: I rip them in half when I use them. Makes it much easier to keep track of. The DM insisted that I get a Handy Haversack to provide in-game versimilitude.
A wand is 50 prepared spells. Our tank likes to be enlarged, so wand of Enlarge for him, wand of Mage Armour for me. Also did a wand of Endure Elements, because when you need it, you need a lot of them (1 per day per party member). And it's cheap: you can do the wand at CL1. Wand of scorching ray is pricey ... but might be the way to go, now. Wand of grease - get (or craft) one at CL 2 or 3. Not too expensive, and indispensable when things start to grapple the party. 50 charges will last you forever.
The job of the party arcane caster is to do the stuff that no-one else can do. Fireball? Feh - we have a hasted Ranger for that. Once you have a decent amount of slots, your job is to have a Feather Fall prepared *at all times*. And later on, it is *your* job to have a Dispel Magic ready to go, always. And to be familiar with the rules for using it. (Last session, dispelling the Lich's Displacement was a key move. I targeted the individual spell to improve the chances of getting it.)
An AT is a rogue. A rogue *needs* darkvision. I have a belt of dwarvenkind - essential. Max out those rogue skills. AT has fewer skill points than a rogue, but the Wizard's intelligence bonus evens that out. Stealth, Disable Device, SOH, Spellcraft, K Arcane. I put one point each into each knowledge skill - class abilities for a Wiz, and those forst three levels of rogue had plenty of skill points to waste.
Having said all that - yes it was slow to start and sucked until level 6 and my third SA die. And it works for me because of how I like to play. If you want to fight, pick something else.
Some good advice here.
I generally agree that the AT works best as a ranged attacker. I had one in 3.5 that used bows + Imp. Invisibility to get multiple sneak attacks a round. You can stack up on some good buffs when needed too.
However, I think the easiest way for the AT to get sneaks more often is darkness + darkvision. The way the darkness spell works in pathfinder is basically unless you are outside during the day it will result in total darkness, since it suppresses all non magical, non natural light in the area. So in a lot of situations darkness will give total darkness, making many enemies who don't have darkvision blind. And if you can see in the darkness via darkvision or some other method, you're opponents are then denied their dex vs your attacks--meaning sneak attacks.
Theres other good spells for achieving similar results. Blindness works of course but its single target. Glitterdust can blind multiple foes, as can Pyrotechnics.
That can help a lot, especially if you are using touch attacks. For when the target is both denied its dex and its just a touch attack, you are basically attacking an AC 10 + size.
Things will get easier once you get 4th level spells and can grab improved invisibility. Till then its hard for the AT. But you should have plenty to do, being both a wizard and a skill monkey, so it should be fun.
I don't get the unarmed strike feat, gives you nothing useful. A touch spell counts you as armed. Hmm, 2wf chain might not be awful combined with chill touch, nova through your uses and pitiful bab countered by touch ac, especially if you like getting up close and flanky. Otherwise, screw the 2wf too.
If you can make room for the feats or can commission a pricey item, my favorite item would be an intelligent protective cloak of displacement that will cast shield etc when it's worried about you.
I'm running an AT that is doing well, but I tend to enjoy playing a support caster role - not looking to dish out damage. If you want to do damage, play a fighter.
IMHO, this is the correct approach for most campaigns.
The sneak attack dice progression trick you into thinking you can keep up as a damage dealer, and you really can't. You generally need to be throwing touch attacks like Scorching Ray to even have a reasonable chance to hit, and even on your best day your damage still will tend to pale compared to a character who's really built for it.
That being said...
An AT is a really, really fun "solve all the problems that don't involve violence" character, and if you can decide to own that niche and accept that you'll tend to play like a slightly poor man's wizard in combat, I think you can have a lot of fun with all the interesting synergies between arcane spells and a rogue's skills from a problem solving perspective.
See if you can retrain some feats. Two-weapon and pitiful BAB is not a winning combo.
Damage is going to be hard to come by unless you use Spell Compendium, as there are few decent ranged touch spells. My wife is playing an AT, and her damage is somewhere between paltry and pitiful.
That said, Scorching Ray is your friend. Hide, vanish or otherwise deny dexterity, and hit them with sneak attack on every ray (Confirmed by James Jacobs in another thread) for 4d6+SA.
inb4 someone starts blathering about it being "overpowered":
Real wizard lv11: 12d6 base, potential for 30d6 with quicken and empowered scorching rays.
Rog3/Wiz3/AT5: 16d6 with sneak attack, which requires a round/conditions to set up. 20d6 if empowered, which is maximum potential for an AT.
I think everyone can agree that 20d6<30d6?
Utility utility utility. Haste, mirror image, enlarge person on friends, spells to enhance your skills and problem-solving issues and so forth.
Don't forget your 0 level spells. Normally they are almost useless past 1st or 2nd level, but with an Arcane Trickster it can be fairly decent. Not for taking down the BBEG, but for finishing off something with just a few HP left.
If your are invisible and using battle control spells, then you can get a ranged sneak attack to finish off a enemy that is almost down. Ray of frost only does 1d3 points of damage, but with an Arcane Trickster of 2nd level that can be 1d3+3d6. The biggest benefit will be you can do this all day long.
If I could change your character, I'd:
First, ditch the weapon feats. You will forever suck at melee. There's no reason for you to seek it out.
Second, put your 20 in Int. You need spells, good DCs, and skill points.
Third, beg your GM to allow you the Street Mage feat from UndeFEATable, which you can download here for $1.25. That will make your AT a lot more fun (No, I have no connection to them).
If you're the only arcane caster in the party, your role is different than if you're the default rogue, and another caster can do the heavy lifting IRT spells.
