Hi,
Ran into a problem the other night. Here is the situation. Two PC's have the spell sanctuary cast on them. Can a foe cast confusion which is an area effect spell in their direction catching them in the radius of effect and bypass the santuary spell. Thanks!
From the Pathfinder SRD:
"This spell does not prevent the warded creature from being attacked or affected by area of effect spells."
So yes, they can have Confusion cast on them. Whether they're the only two targets in the area or not. Sanctuary only wards from direct attacks.
From the Pathfinder SRD:
"This spell does not prevent the warded creature from being attacked or affected by area of effect spells."
So yes, they can have Confusion cast on them. Whether they're the only two targets in the area or not. Sanctuary only wards from direct attacks.
Looking up both confusion and sanctuary, confusion is a non-selective AE and as nuke says above would qualify i suppose.
Yeah thats a good question.
The confusing part (see what I did there) is whether or not the Confusion spell is indeed an 'area' spell or a 'target' spell.
Sanctuary will prevent the subject from being the target of a spell, but it won't prevent it from being caught in the area of a spell effect. So the question is how do we resolve the Confusion spell?
Clearly a spell like Fireball is an area spell. It has an entry "area" and describes the size of the area.
Clearly a spell like Slow is a targeted spell. It has a "target" entry that describes the limitations on what can be a target. The caster can choose which creatures are targeted by the spell. He could in fact target only a single creature with the spell if he so desired.
Confusion however appears to be a targeted spell, as it has a target entry. But the description of what may be a target is fixed based on an area formula: all creatures in a 15ft radius burst. And by using the word 'burst' the spell seems to function as an area spell, as 'burst' is specifically described under Area spells in the Magic section. Furthermore, the description for Target spells suggests that you "must specifically choose the target" of the spell, and Confusion doesn't work that way. Also, the caster of Confusion picks a point in space for where the spell takes effect, not which creatures are affected; and this is exactly how area spells work.
So which is it? It wants to work like an area spell, but it has a target entry.
Other spells have this problem. Wail of the Banshee has a target line, but the target entry reads "one living creature/level within a 40-ft.-radius spread." The Holy Aura/Unholy Aura/Cloak of Chaos/Shield of Law spells also have a similar target entry which reads "one creature/level in a 20-ft.-radius burst centered on you." One difference between Confusion and these spells is that Confusion has no limitation on the number of creatures that can be affected, it simply affects "all creatures" in its defined area.
Some things to think about regarding the differences between area and target spells: 1) a target spell requires being able to see or touch the targets, thus you can't target an invisible creature unless you can see invisible creatures, and 2) a spellcaster who is the target of his own spell receives no saving throw. Area spells work differently, in that unseen creatures can still be affected, and a spellcaster caught in the area of his own spell still gets a saving throw.
So perhaps by resolving some of the differences between target and area spells we can see whether Confusion should be treated as an area or target spell.
Can Confusion affect an invisible creature if the caster can't see invisible creatures? I'd tend to think yes, as the spell targets 'all creatures' in the area. I'd answer the same for Wail of the Banshee and Holy Aura.
Would a spellcaster receive a saving throw against his own Confusion spell? I'd like to think yes he should, as its pretty much the only 'target' spell that a spellcaster can cast that would have a negative effect, and that he might intentionally catch himself with. Most target spells with negative effects would allow him to not include himself as a subject of the spell; spells like Slow would allow the caster to exclude himself. Wail of the Banshee specifically excludes the caster. And Holy Aura is centered on the caster, but it would be a rare spellcaster who prepares or casts this spell that doesn't want it to affect himself. Area spells such as Fireball would grant the spellcaster a save. So I'd think in this sense Confusion works more like an area spell.
How would we resolve Confusion being cast on a "blinking" target? Blink says that a blinking creature takes half damage from area spells, and that there is a 50% chance that it is unaffected by target spells. Clearly you can't take half damage from a Confusion spell, so it must be the 50% chance that applies. So in that sense it works more like a target spell.
Can the Widen Spell metamagic feat modify a Confusion spell? Widen says that "You can alter a burst, emanation, line, or spread-shaped spell to increase its area." Confusion says it has a burst, so it seems like Widen could be used with it. But Widen generally can only work with an area spell and not target spells.
All in all, I'd probably treat Confusion as an area spell more than a target spell. I'd think that invisible creatures caught in the area can be affected, and that a spellcaster would get a save against his own Confusion spell. I also think that the Widen spell would be able to alter the spell. So for those reasons I would treat Confusion as an area spell.
Thus, with regard to Sanctuary, I'd say that one could cast it at a creature subject to Sanctuary without problem, because Sanctuary doesn't prevent the subject creature from being caught in an area spell.
Hi,
Ran into a problem the other night. Here is the situation. Two PC's have the spell sanctuary cast on them. Can a foe cast confusion which is an area effect spell in their direction catching them in the radius of effect and bypass the santuary spell. Thanks!Confusion is a 'target' entry spell rather than an 'area' spell. Don't let the fact that the caster cannot choose targets confuse you!
If the caster is trying to cast confusion on both then he would need to pass both saves against sanctuary or otherwise loose the spell and not be able to attack either for the duration of the spell.
-James
PS: As a side note if someone were unseen in the radius of the confusion spell they do not need to make a save against it as they are not a viable target.
So....Whats the ruling? Where are the Paizo rule lawyers when you need them! LOL. Just kidding, please help us out here.
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Sanctuary: Any opponent attempting to directly attack the warded creature, even with a targeted spell, must attempt a Will save. If the save succeeds, the opponent can attack normally and is unaffected by that casting of the spell. If the save fails, the opponent can't follow through with the attack, that part of its action is lost, and it can't directly attack the warded creature for the duration of the spell. Those not attempting to attack the subject remain unaffected. This spell does not prevent the warded creature from being attacked or affected by area of effect spells. The subject cannot attack without breaking the spell but may use nonattack spells or otherwise act.
Confusion:
among other things
"Targets all creatures in a 15-ft.-radius burst"
Page 213-214 contains the rules for reading spell entries.
Target or Targets: Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. you must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target."
The issue appears to be due to confusion, lesser and regular confusion. Confusion lesser applies to just one target, where as confusion applies as a burst and *should* be Area instead of Targets.
However, as worded, the caster has to target everyone within the 15 radius burst, which means that sanctuary kicks in. If the caster fails to make the save for any of the sanctuary-affected creatures in the burst area, he fails to cast the spell :P
So is this the ruling? Anyone from Paizo wish to slam the gavel down on this one please????