Because of the dual nature of the Sun Blade where Weapon Focus Short Sword and other Feats relating to the short sword apply, would Weapon Finesse apply also.
I would rule yes.
Because of the dual nature of the Sun Blade where Weapon Focus Short Sword and other Feats relating to the short sword apply, would Weapon Finesse apply also.I would rule yes.
+1
+2+1Because of the dual nature of the Sun Blade where Weapon Focus Short Sword and other Feats relating to the short sword apply, would Weapon Finesse apply also.I would rule yes.
+3
+4 - that's kinda the point of it.
My those weapons are getting rather popular lately. As there been an upswing in the Vampire population?
They seem to have became the new munchkin"how big a sword can I use" loophole.
+10 (summation of plusses)
Also, munchkin? That's randomly judgmental of you.
Not really, I have seen at lest 3 threads asking how to get the biggest weapon usable by a human. I did not say all sunblade users are munchkin however trying to exploit a loophole is however
I calls em like I see em.
Not really, I have seen at lest 3 threads asking how to get the biggest weapon usable by a human. I did not say all sunblade users are munchkin however trying to exploit a loophole is however
I calls em like I see em.
I hears ya callin' em.
Around my gaming table, the term "Sunblade" has been replaced with "Cheeseblade", and the recent rash of 16' long Sunblade posts here on the forums has done nothing to diminish the cheese.
Worthy of note, however, that this thread isn't one of the cheese threads, and the Weapon Finesse question was a valid, non-cheesy question. Kudos to the cheese-free OP!
I agree, The OP is not being cheesy or anything and was a valid question. I myself would never allow a huge sunblade to work as to me it's Bastardsword sized, not short sword sized. It's size does not change.
So massive sunblade = munchkin or cheese, which ever term ya like to use.. YMMV
This is probably a stupid question but what book is the Sunblade in? I've actually never seen it.
core rule book, magic weapon.
I think alot of the issues is left over wording from older editions. Usable with either bastard sword or short sword proficiency was a much bigger deal pre 3e.
Sun Blade
This sword is the size of a bastard sword. However, a sun blade is wielded as if it were a short sword with respect to weight and ease of use. In other words, the weapon appears to all viewers to be a bastard sword, and deals bastard sword damage, but the wielder feels and reacts as if the weapon were a short sword. Any individual able to use either a bastard sword or a short sword with proficiency is proficient in the use of a sun blade. Likewise, Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization in short sword and bastard sword apply equally, but the benefits of those feats do not stack.
In normal combat, the glowing golden blade of the weapon is equal to a +2 bastard sword. Against evil creatures, its enhancement bonus is +4. Against Negative Energy Plane creatures or undead creatures, the sword deals double damage (and ×3 on a critical hit instead of the usual ×2).
The blade also has a special sunlight power. Once per day, the wielder can swing the blade vigorously above his head while speaking a command word. The sun blade then sheds a bright yellow radiance that acts like bright light and affects creatures susceptible to light as if it were natural sunlight. The radiance begins shining in a 10-foot radius around the sword wielder and extends outward at 5 feet per round for 10 rounds thereafter, to create a globe of light with a 60-foot radius. When the wielder stops swinging, the radiance fades to a dim glow that persists for another minute before disappearing entirely. All sun blades are of good alignment, and any evil creature attempting to wield one gains one negative level. The negative level remains as long as the sword is in hand and disappears when the sword is no longer wielded. This negative level cannot be overcome in any way (including by restoration spells) while the sword is wielded.
Huh... Interesting lol. I can see why people choose to dual wield them.
I agree, The OP is not being cheesy or anything and was a valid question. I myself would never allow a huge sunblade to work as to me it's Bastardsword sized, not short sword sized. It's size does not change. So massive sunblade = munchkin or cheese, which ever term ya like to use.. YMMV
But even if it was using Short Sword Proficiency, wouldn't a Huge sized Sunblade be a huge sized SHORT SWORD and therefore not wieldable in 1 OR 2 hands by a Medium creature?
The argument is Most Light weapons are 2 sizes smaller then the user so they call a short sword tiny? I don't know gives me a head ach thinking of all the loopholes they like to use.
To me it's not usable anyhow even if ya could use a shortsword 2 handed as it's not short sword sized.
That's correct. Pathfinder doesn't use the same size description of 3.x. The size of a weapon now defines what size category of creature is best fitted to the weapon. So a HUGE sunblade is two sizes beyond medium and is simply not ussable at par by a medium creature period.I agree, The OP is not being cheesy or anything and was a valid question. I myself would never allow a huge sunblade to work as to me it's Bastardsword sized, not short sword sized. It's size does not change. So massive sunblade = munchkin or cheese, which ever term ya like to use.. YMMVBut even if it was using Short Sword Proficiency, wouldn't a Huge sized Sunblade be a huge sized SHORT SWORD and therefore not wieldable in 1 OR 2 hands by a Medium creature?
That was actually true in 3.5 too. 3.5e had light, one-handed, and two-handed weapons. The Small, Medium, & Large designations (and so on) were for the creatures for whom they were scaled.
That's correct. Pathfinder doesn't use the same size description of 3.x. The size of a weapon now defines what size category of creature is best fitted to the weapon.
Agree and correct (as Wolf Munroe said above, those changes were already introduced in 3.5, however).
So a HUGE sunblade is two sizes beyond medium and is simply not ussable at par by a medium creature period.
More or less. As a Huge Light Weapon, it can be wielded by Large Creatures at -2 hit as a One-Handed Weapon, or by Medium Creatures at -4 hit as a Two-Handed Weapon.
PRD -> Equipment -> Weapons:
"Weapon Size: Every weapon has a size category. This designation indicates the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed.
A weapon's size category isn't the same as its size as an object. Instead, a weapon's size category is keyed to the size of the intended wielder. In general, a light weapon is an object two size categories smaller than the wielder, a one-handed weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder, and a two-handed weapon is an object of the same size category as the wielder.
Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can't make optimum use of a weapon that isn't properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn't proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.
The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon's designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can't wield the weapon at all."
A question rises, however, regarding the SunBlade itself. How do you apply Power Attack to it ? Which is, what ratio to damage would you apply when wielding it, 2:1 as a One-Handed Weapon (like a Bastard Sword) or 1:1 as a Light Weapon (like a Short Sword) ? What about wielding TWO SunBlades and applying Power Attack ? I know how I would apply the bonus while GMing, but I would like to hear your idea regarding it - or better yet, an official response...
A question rises, however, regarding the SunBlade itself. How do you apply Power Attack to it ? Which is, what ratio to damage would you apply when wielding it, 2:1 as a One-Handed Weapon (like a Bastard Sword) or 1:1 as a Light Weapon (like a Short Sword) ? What about wielding TWO SunBlades and applying Power Attack ? I know how I would apply the bonus while GMing, but I would like to hear your idea regarding it - or better yet, an official response...
I don't see that there is any need for an official response. You may just be misunderstanding the Power Attack feat.
Per Power Attack:
Offhand weapon (when using TWF) or Secondary natural attack: +1 damage per- -1 to hit.
1H weapon or light weapon (not off-hand) or normal Primary natural attack: +2 damage per -1 to hit.
Any 2H or 1H weapon wielded in two hands or Primary natural attack that gets +1.5 STR modifier: +3 damage per -1 to hit.
For a medium creature:
A medium Cheeseblade is a light weapon (like a shortsword). Wielded off-hand in TWF is 1:1, wielded as a primary weapon is 1:2, and wielded 2H is 1:2 (not 1:3 because light weapons don't qualify for 1:3).
A large Cheeseblade is a 1H weapon (like a longsword). Wielded off-hand in TWF is 1:1, wielded as a primary weapon is 1:2, and wielded 2H is 1:3.
A huge Cheeseblade is a 2H weapon (like a longsword). Wielded off-hand is impossible, wielded as a primary weapon is 1:2, and wielded 2H is 1:3.
QED.
I don't see that there is any need for an official response. You may just be misunderstanding the Power Attack feat.
Per Power Attack:
Offhand weapon (when using TWF) or Secondary natural attack: +1 damage per- -1 to hit.
1H weapon or light weapon (not off-hand) or normal Primary natural attack: +2 damage per -1 to hit.
Any 2H or 1H weapon wielded in two hands or Primary natural attack that gets +1.5 STR modifier: +3 damage per -1 to hit.
You are right, I somehow mixed the rules for Power Attack in 3.5 (where all Light Weapons could not benefit from Power Attack at all) and Pathfinder Rules for the Ratio 1:1 for Off-hand weapons - and I thought that ALL Light Weapons could only benefit from the 1:1 Ratio...
Basically, what I thought it could be intended as a house-rule was effectively the OFFICIAL rule... SunBlade Main-hand = 2:1, SunBlade Off-hand = 1:1
EDIT: not that I actually HAVE a character with two SunBlades... I don't even play a character at the moment (just GMing) !
Thank you !