Hi folks. I'm prepping the adventure for this weekends DnD fun. I'm setting up the first dungeon that the party will be going into, and have some Stirges. I'm trying to get my mind around the Attach ability that they have.
My understanding of the way that the ability is working is that the stirge flies up and makes its +7 touch attack to attach to someone.
During that first round the stirge does not need to make any grapple checks, as they were replaced by the attack roll that it made to attach to someone.
On a following round a stirge that remained grappled through the round needs to make a grapple check to stay lodged in and continue eating its chosen victims Con. The stirge would receive a +5 bonus to these grapple checks since it would be a subsequent round according to the grapple rules in addition to its racial +8 bonus.
After four rounds of successful feeding, the stirge would be able to simply "let go" since it initiated the grapple.
Do I have that right? Thanks for feedback.
Happy gaming.
Uthanar
Thanks for the confirmation TriOmegaZero.
Dont forget that the stirges need to enter the PCs square to attack which means the PCs get an AoO.
I always forgot about that until about 3 yrs ago. I was always wonder why they were so bad-@ss then...
Thanks for the note, but I did remember that they are a 0 foot reach monster. I'm presenting them in only moderate number (4 versus 5 party members) but they are attacking when the party is at disadvantage (balancing on a wet cavern ledge over a 30 ft drop). We shall see how everything turns out. =D
Happy gaming.
Barator
I made stats up for 1/2 red dragon stirges. Had to increase their hit dice and size to get the whole thing to work out, but they're pretty cool.
Sounds like your players are about 2nd level, is that right? If so then one giant super stirge might make for a memorable psedo-villain.
Having read the stirge entry, I'm a little confused. From the look of things, the Stirge gets a +8 racial bonus to maintain a grapple, but only to their CMB, not to their CMD.
Which means their CMD is 9. You're almost certainly going to be able to make a grapple or escape artist check and break free, aren't you?
Also, the Attach entry says that the Stirge loses its Dex bonus to AC while attached. Would that reduce that CMD to 5?
Having read the stirge entry, I'm a little confused. From the look of things, the Stirge gets a +8 racial bonus to maintain a grapple, but only to their CMB, not to their CMD.
Which means their CMD is 9. You're almost certainly going to be able to make a grapple or escape artist check and break free, aren't you?
Also, the Attach entry says that the Stirge loses its Dex bonus to AC while attached. Would that reduce that CMD to 5?
Hmmm...
From The PRD:
"Any penalties to a creature's AC also apply to its CMD. A flat-footed creature does not add its Dexterity bonus to its CMD."
So it looks like I does become 5. I would add the +8 to this though it is not clearly stated.
...And let's not forget "If your target does not break the grapple, you get a +5 circumstance bonus on grapple checks made against the same target in subsequent rounds." (PRD: Combat/Grapple)
Haha, that means you basically automatically escape a grapple by a stirge?
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Having read the stirge entry, I'm a little confused. From the look of things, the Stirge gets a +8 racial bonus to maintain a grapple, but only to their CMB, not to their CMD.
Which means their CMD is 9. You're almost certainly going to be able to make a grapple or escape artist check and break free, aren't you?
Also, the Attach entry says that the Stirge loses its Dex bonus to AC while attached. Would that reduce that CMD to 5?
Remember that they are only flatfooted to those they are not grappling, so it keeps its Dex bonus against its victim.
Stirges are not supposed to be deadly enemies. They can be dangerous to low BAB, low Con characters, requiring teammates to get the nasty buggers off before too much blood is lost.
If they got the +8 to CMD as well, and the wizard was alone, he'd have to roll a 17 to remove it. And at first level, he'll have maybe a +1 or 2?
Stirges are something that requires teamwork to protect weaker characters. They're not mean to be killer bugs.
Haha, that means you basically automatically escape a grapple by a stirge?
Yes. But being able to brush a stirge off doesn't help if there are 5+ attacking you.
It makes the most sense for stirges to attack a single target. That way they typically have to deal with just one AoO. Also, they should go after those who don't wear armor. . .
I made stats up for 1/2 red dragon stirges. Had to increase their hit dice and size to get the whole thing to work out, but they're pretty cool. Sounds like your players are about 2nd level, is that right? If so then one giant super stirge might make for a memorable psedo-villain.
They are 1st and 2nd level ATM. The three characters that have been to both sessions are 2nd, the ones that have only been to one session are still first.
A super stirge could be fun, though this encounter is just door guard trash on the way to a bad people complex, so I don't want to make the encounter too nasty.
As for escaping from a Stirge's grapple, I have never thought that should be all that hard to do. Certainly the threat isn't one stirge sucking on your life blood, but a group of them sucking on your life blood all at once. You can grapple one of them off, or you can just punch the little blighter for the 5 hp it has and watch it explode.
As for not taking Dex into account on the CMD, I guess it would be a DM call on that. The stirge is not flat-footed, but is simply not adding its Dex to its AC. I also don't know that I would call that a penalty as penalties are defined as:
Penalty: Penalties are numerical values that are subtracted from a check or statistical score. Penalties do not have a type and most penalties stack with one another.
So I think that it would stay at the CMD of 9, but could easily see folks arguing that it would go down to a 5. Either way, it should be easy to escape from one stirge sucking your blood, but how about the other two that are sucking on your rear end?
Happy gaming.
Barator
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It makes the most sense for stirges to attack a single target. That way they typically have to deal with just one AoO. Also, they should go after those who don't wear armor. . .
Agreed, they would go for the easiest flesh, but they would not be smart enough to all attack the same guy to avoid AoOs, unless only one person was lightly armored.
True that. And I think it's better for the party if they all attack one person. A single Burning Hands should take care of the problem (followed by some healing, of course...)
They'd typically swarm the unarmored caster. . . which typically has the only cast of burning hands (:
Remember that they are only flatfooted to those they are not grappling, so it keeps its Dex bonus against its victim.
I don't see that in the entry anywhere, and that's not generally true for grappling in Pathfinder. Where do you read that?
Remember that they are only flatfooted to those they are not grappling, so it keeps its Dex bonus against its victim.I don't see that in the entry anywhere, and that's not generally true for grappling in Pathfinder. Where do you read that?
It's a special property of the stirge's attach attack. When they attach, they lose their Dex bonus and become grappled.
It's a special property of the stirge's attach attack. When they attach, they lose their Dex bonus and become grappled.Remember that they are only flatfooted to those they are not grappling, so it keeps its Dex bonus against its victim.I don't see that in the entry anywhere, and that's not generally true for grappling in Pathfinder. Where do you read that?
I know that. I was disagreeing with what TOZ said, which does NOT seem to be in the entry.
I know that. I was disagreeing with what TOZ said, which does NOT seem to be in the entry.It's a special property of the stirge's attach attack. When they attach, they lose their Dex bonus and become grappled.Remember that they are only flatfooted to those they are not grappling, so it keeps its Dex bonus against its victim.I don't see that in the entry anywhere, and that's not generally true for grappling in Pathfinder. Where do you read that?
Oh, yeah, they lose their Dex bonus to everyone. They did that in 3.5 too.
I know that. I was disagreeing with what TOZ said, which does NOT seem to be in the entry.
As you pointed out, that was the case in 3.5, with pathfinder there is no such stipulation.
Grappled: A grappled creature is restrained by a creature, trap, or effect. Grappled creatures cannot move and take a –4 penalty to Dexterity. A grappled creature takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks, except those made to grapple or escape a grapple. In addition, grappled creatures can take no action that requires two hands to perform. A grappled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level), or lose the spell. Grappled creatures cannot make attacks of opportunity.
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I don't see that in the entry anywhere, and that's not generally true for grappling in Pathfinder. Where do you read that?
From my memory of 3.5 grapple. I see in the glossary it has changed.
A grappled creature is restrained by a creature, trap, or effect. Grappled creatures cannot move and take a –4 penalty to Dexterity. A grappled creature takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks, except those made to grapple or escape a grapple. In addition, grappled creatures can take no action that requires two hands to perform. A grappled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level), or lose the spell. Grappled creatures cannot make attacks of opportunity.
A grappled creature cannot use Stealth to hide from the creature grappling it, even if a special ability, such as hide in plain sight, would normally allow it to do so. If a grappled creature becomes invisible, through a spell or other ability, it gains a +2 circumstance bonus on its CMD to avoid being grappled, but receives no other benefit.
So the stirge would take a -2 to its CMD from the Dex penalty, but not from the -2 grappling penalty. At the same time, the victim would be in the same boat. Both participants would have their CMD lowered by 2, but not their CMB.
Here is an advanced version that stays tiny. Now something for higher level parties to fear. When a swarm of these bad boys say 16 of them for a EL 13 comes at you watch out!
STIRGE CR 5 ADVANCED(+1), HALF-DRAGON RED(+2), HALF-FIEND(+1), +3 HD (+1)
Lawful Evil Tiny dragon outsider
Init +4; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent; Perception +1
DEFENSE
AC 26, touch 21, flat-footed 17 (+9 Dex, +2 size, +5 natural armor)
hp 50 (4d10+28)
Fort +8, Ref +12, Will +5
OFFENSE
Speed 10 ft., fly 40 ft. (average)
Melee touch +14 (attach), bite +12 (1d3+4), 2 claws +12 (1d2+4)
Space 2-1/2 ft.; Reach 0 ft.
Special Attacks blood drain, Smite Good (Su): Once per day it can add 4 extra damage against a good foe., breath weapon (30-foot cone of fire, 4d6 fire damage, Reflex DC 12+ half),
Special Qualities immunity to poison, sleep, paralysis, fire; acid, cold, and electricity resistance 10; DR 5/magic
Spell like abilities (CL 4) darkness 3/day, desecrate 1/day
STATISTICS
Str 19, Dex 28, Con 24, Int 9, Wis 18, Cha 14
Base Atk +3; CMB +9 (+17 grapple when attached); CMD 24 (32 vs. trip)
Feats Weapon Finesse, Stealthy
Skills Fly +18, Stealth +23, Perception +11, Sense Motive +8, Escape artist +20
SQ diseased
ECOLOGY
Environment temperate and warm swamps
Organization solitary, colony (2–4), flock (5–8), storm (9–14), or swarm (15–40)
Treasure none
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Attach (Ex) When a stirge hits with a touch attack, its barbed legs latch onto the target, anchoring it in place. An attached stirge is effectively grappling its prey. The stirge loses its Dexterity bonus to AC and has an AC of 17, but holds on with great tenacity and inserts its proboscis into the grappled target's flesh. A stirge has a +8 racial bonus to maintain its grapple on a foe once it is attached. An attached stirge can be struck with a weapon or grappled itself—if its prey manages to win a grapple check or Escape Artist check against it, the stirge is removed.
Blood Drain (Ex) A stirge drains blood at the end of its turn if it is attached to a foe, inflicting 2 points of Constitution damage. Once a stirge has dealt 8 points of Constitution damage, it detaches and flies off to digest the meal. If its victim dies before the stirge's appetite has been sated, the stirge detaches and seeks a new target. (increased con damage due to its advanced nature, maybe a few holes in its proboscis)
Here is an advanced version that is bumbed to size Medium. Now something for higher level parties to fear. When a swarm of these bad boys say 8 of them for a EL 13 comes at you watch out!
STIRGE CR 6 GIANT X 2(+2), HALF-DRAGON:RED(+2), ADVANCED(+1), HD +3 (+1)
N Medium dragon
Init +2; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent; Perception +8
DEFENSE
AC 22, touch 20, flat-footed 12 (+2 Dex, Natural Armor +10)
hp 50 (4d10+28)
Fort +12, Ref +4, Will +2
OFFENSE
Speed 20 ft., fly 50 ft. (average)
Melee touch +8 (attach), claw x2 +6 1d6+5 , bite +6 1d4+5
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks blood drain, breath weapon 1/day: 30’ cone of fire 4d6 DC 19 reflex for ½ damage
Special Qualities immunity to sleep, paralysis, and fire
STATISTICS
Str 20, Dex 15, Con 24, Int 3, Wis 12, Cha 8
Base Atk +3; CMB +8 (+18 grapple when attached); CMD 20 (30 vs. grapple)
Feats Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple (+2 to grapple and no AoO)
Skills Fly +8, Stealth +13, Perception +8
SQ diseased
ECOLOGY
Environment temperate and warm swamps
Organization solitary, colony (2–4), flock (5–8), storm (9–14), or swarm (15–40)
Treasure none
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Attach (Ex) When a stirge hits with a touch attack, its barbed legs latch onto the target, anchoring it in place. An attached stirge is effectively grappling its prey. The stirge loses its Dexterity bonus to AC and has an AC of 20, but holds on with great tenacity and inserts its proboscis into the grappled target's flesh. A stirge has a +8 racial bonus to maintain its grapple on a foe once it is attached. An attached stirge can be struck with a weapon or grappled itself—if its prey manages to win a grapple check or Escape Artist check against it, the stirge is removed.
Blood Drain (Ex) A stirge drains blood at the end of its turn if it is attached to a foe, inflicting 3 point of Constitution damage. Once a stirge has dealt 12 points of Constitution damage, it detaches and flies off to digest the meal. If its victim dies before the stirge's appetite has been sated, the stirge detaches and seeks a new target. (Increased con damage based on size)
Necro-thread, because it's the same topic.
So a 6th-level druid is hovering in small air elemental form 30-feet above a huge owlbear, i.e. magical beast without ranged attacks. The druid uses Summon Nature's Ally 3 to summon 5 (1d4+1) stirges in the squares of the owlbear. They all make successful touch attacks to attach. Please confirm the following statements:
1. They avoid AOOs by being summoned inside a square of the owlbear
2. At the end of the druid's/stirges' first turn, the owlbear takes 5 constitution damage
3. The owlbear has the grappled condition, as do all the stirges
Thanks in advance