Help me price an item?


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I'm not the expert on this.

How much would a pair of glasses that permanently gave the wearer true seeing with an unlimited range cost?

Silver Crusade

I'm not convinced you can legally create an item with unlimited range as there is no spell (beyond a Wish?) that can grant that power. Assuming you could live with a pair of glasses that grant True Seeing out to the listed spell range of 120', here's my breakdown:

6 x 11 x 2000 x 2 = 264,000

6 = 6th lvl spell
11 = caster level
2000 = wondrous item with permanent effect
x2 = increase for converting to permanent spell with minute/lvl duration.

That's without any unlimited range. In my opinion, that added feature would push this into minor artifact range.


I don't know if I would go so far as to say "artifact" here. For one thing, "Unlike normal magic items, artifacts are not easily destroyed." This is just a magic item, right? Someone could sunder it or disintegrate it, or whatever, right?

If the answer is "No, there is no easy way to destroy it - you have to throw it into the fires of Barad Dur" then, yeah, it's an artifact.

Otherwise, it's just a magic item.

Another funny thing about artifacts is "they are magic items that no longer can be created, at least by common mortal means." So, is this a pair of glasses your PC can make on his own? Or can he buy them from Fred the Village Wizard who just whipped them up in his basement forge last year?

Or do we need to travel to the outer planes and enlist a dozen Efreeti to spend a decade forging this item out of rare ingredients like The Tears of the Abyss, the Heart of an Orange Dragon, and the Dying Wish of an Immortal Toad, or other weird stuff?

If it's the latter, then this is an artifcat. Otherwise, it's just a magic item.

MP433 gave the correct pricing for it (without the unlimited range). However, you mentioned you wanted this to be glasses - does that mean it takes up the head slot? Or can somebody wear these glasses and also wear a Headband of Vast Intellect?

If it doesn't take up a slot, then double the price.

Finally, for the unlimited range, I look to the Epic Level Handbook from D&D 3.0. There are powerful feats in there with unlimited range (for example, one archery feat lets you fire a bow at anything you can see, even if it's miles away). So to me, "unlimited range" smacks of epic level stuff.

So these glasses sound like an epic level item. We could use the ELH as a guide for making them, which means the PC or NPC who makes this item needs the Epic feat "Craft Epic Wondrous Item", and that feat cannot be taken until well above 20th level (I don't have the book at hand right now so I'm being a littel vague here about specific details).

And also the prices of Epic items tend to be 10x higher than the prices of ordinary items. The ELH goes into great detail explaining why.

Based on that, I would take the price you've been given, 264,000 (or 528,000 if it uses no slot) and multiply that by 10 to give in the Epic "unlimited range".


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Thanks for the input!

Let me clarify some things...

1. I intend this as a slotted item in the eye slot (which is distinct from the head slot...googles of night do not use the same slot as a headband of intellect +2).

2. The unlimited range is really, as far as you could otherwise see. Walls, trees, curvature of the earth, that all still applies and blocks vision. Why? Basically, the see invisibility spell lets you see invisible things (without range). True seeing goes out to 120 feet. Yes, true seeing does quite a bit more than see invisibility. Still, it annoys me that if the enemy is 121 feet away and invisible, the guy with mere see invisibility up detects that guy, but not the guy with true seeing.

I hope those clarifications help. Do they affect the pricing?


drsparnum wrote:

Thanks for the input!

Let me clarify some things...

1. I intend this as a slotted item in the eye slot (which is distinct from the head slot...googles of night do not use the same slot as a headband of intellect +2).

2. The unlimited range is really, as far as you could otherwise see. Walls, trees, curvature of the earth, that all still applies and blocks vision. Why? Basically, the see invisibility spell lets you see invisible things (without range). True seeing goes out to 120 feet. Yes, true seeing does quite a bit more than see invisibility. Still, it annoys me that if the enemy is 121 feet away and invisible, the guy with mere see invisibility up detects that guy, but not the guy with true seeing.

Well then, sparing yourself the need for epic stuff, just build in a see invisible effect for things more than 120' away. (Plus, this is kind of how vision works, right -- things need to be closer for better levels of detail). Secondary related effect prices are right there, just waiting to be used!

So... Atop the correct 264,000, we add:

2 x 3 x 2000 x 1.5 x .75 = 13,500

2 = 2nd lvl spell
3 = caster level
2000 = wondrous item with permanent effect
x1.5 = increase for converting to permanent spell with 10 minute/lvl duration
0.75 = second "similar" ability

Total cost: 277,500.

Edit: Didn't define the .75 the first time.

Grand Lodge

drsparnum wrote:

I'm not the expert on this.

How much would a pair of glasses that permanently gave the wearer true seeing with an unlimited range cost?

More than anyone could possibly be willing to pay.

That's an item far far beyond the power of any mortal to create. So the answer is... don't worry about the pricing as no GM this side of Arkham will allow it. And the games they play IN Arkham we don't want to know about.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Thank you for the calculation.

So clearly that is more than anyone would want to pay for that. So, into the more subjective category...comparing the item with similar items or determining how much it should be worth.

What do people think?

See Invisibility permanent 120 feet + See invisibility; all permanent on the eye slot.


See invisibility and True Sight are totally different animals.

What's the intent of this particular item? See invis or true sight.

It's such a huge differnce.


M P 433 wrote:

I'm not convinced you can legally create an item with unlimited range as there is no spell (beyond a Wish?) that can grant that power. Assuming you could live with a pair of glasses that grant True Seeing out to the listed spell range of 120', here's my breakdown:

6 x 11 x 2000 x 2 = 264,000

6 = 6th lvl spell
11 = caster level
2000 = wondrous item with permanent effect
x2 = increase for converting to permanent spell with minute/lvl duration.

That's without any unlimited range. In my opinion, that added feature would push this into minor artifact range.

Permanent items with expensive material cost need to pay 100x the cost of the mats. So you need to add 100x250 = 25,000 to your cost.

I agree on unlimited range as artifact level. If you were to think of adding an equivalent of widen spell to it for +4 spell levels, that would put it at a 10th level spell. 240' is basically line of sight. I know it doesn't actually work, just as an idea on pricing. If (like me) you think widen is overpriced at +4, and reduce it to +3, that gives you a 9th level spell, which is doable non-epic.

9 x 17 x 2000 x 2 +25,000 =637,000gp

Yes, that's crazy expensive. True seeing all the time at LOS should be.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Intent of the item? Okay, short story long, because maybe I need more advice than just the pricing of this item.

1. I’m about to start a new game with a L1 PC among a 7 person party.
2. I will play an archery-focused ranger. Archery is my main shtick, and my main contribution, but I will do other rangery jobs (tracking, spotting, stealthing, guarding, knowledge naturing, animal companioning, etc).
3. My companions are: fighter, barbarian, paladin, rogue, cleric, and sorcerer.
4. Because of the large melee-focused party [TWF fighter + TH barbarian + mounted/S&B paladin] it is not really necessary that I take a lot of hits and intercept bad guys headed towards the sorceror (hence the archery focus).
5. However, I feel like I’m not doing my full duty for the party, because, I do get a d10 hit points, and it seems like some of the job for a character who gets d10 hit points is to take hits.* So I feel like a tough-guy archer is at best taking the easy road and at worst a parasite.
6. To correct for this “parasitism” I planned to spend an enormous percentage of my money on my weapon; probably 50% of character wealth+. This is based on the assumption that I need armor less than melee focused characters that close with the enemy intentionally, and I have a greater responsibility to do damage (since I’m not sucking up attacks), and I need to overcome the (possible) lower damage potential of archery.
7. I actually planned out, based on a budget of 700-800k, all of the magic items I would like to have at L20.
8. Then I got the monkey wrench. We’re playing the drow wars campaign setting (no spoilers please, I’m the player; we’re still doing it Pathfinder), and our DM told us to pick a legacy item.
9. Legacy items are items that we (the characters) are destined to find …. 1/character. It will grow in power with us as we level. Upon clarification, the DM told me it could be worth about as much as a 200k gp item.
10. The obvious choice for me is the weapon. It is easily the most expensive item I will buy. However, if I choose the bow as my legacy item I will be stuck with the regular pre-determined level up pace of the legacy item. Assuming the fighter, barbarian, and paladin all pick a weapon (and they probably will, and possibly the rogue too) my weapon will be no better than theirs. I’ll be back to parasitizing, investing no more into damage as anyone else while getting a pseudo-free ride on taking hits.
11. So I tried to think of what else I could need more than others. If I pick another item as my legacy item (aka, not my weapon) I’m free to still invest heavily in my conventional magic weapon (it’s stupid to buy a +10 bow AND have a legacy item bow…I can only use one at a time). I thought, as an archer I probably need long range vision more than anyone. As a human, hunting dark-vision loaded drow, underground, I’d like to see underground better than they do and pick them off from afar.
12. This left me wondering if a vision enhancing item could ever be so great it would be worth 200k gp. It seems one can design a vision enhancing item officially worth 200k gp, although I’m still not convinced it is really worth 200k gp.
So what is the intent? The intent is to come up with a worthwhile 200k gp item for an archer that ISN’T his bow. Assuming that item is a vision item, the goal is then to come up with a 200k gp equivalent vision item that I get essentially for free, so worthwhile I won’t feel stupid for having picked it over an essentially free 200k gp equivalent weapon. I don’t necessarily get to decide on what the legacy powers do (I really know very little about these items). I just need to know that if I tell the DM my legacy item is glasses he’s got a viable course to design for me a really, really useful eye slot wondrous item.

*I still won’t be as good at taking hits as the others. The barbarian gets a d12 hp. The fighter gets the best armor. The paladin can heal himself easily. I’m not saying I need to take equal hits, but my goal is to avoid all possible hits.


drsparnum wrote:

Intent of the item? Okay, short story long, because maybe I need more advice than just the pricing of this item.

Have you looked at the robe of eyes? While not full true seeing, it covers pretty much everything you need. Base cost 120,000gp. You could ask your GM to have a version in your eye slot, or add a few more features to bring it up to 200k.

Grand Lodge

Quite frankly I think you're looking at your character too narrowly.

The Ranger isn't just a good archer, if that is all you were thinking of playing you might have just as well gone straight fighter.

Look at the other areas of the class, in particular it's skill set. You can stealth as good as a rogue and you've got the skill points to do it with. You are your party's scout, it's tracker, and with a cure wand available you might be the one to bring up the party's healer if he or she is taken down.

You're job is not to take "hits" your JOBS are ranged damage dealer, environment expert, and presumably you're going to be particularly expert as a drow hunter.

I don't know why you are playing a level 1 with a party of level 7s. Your DM should be starting you at at level 6 just so you can be playing in your league not several stories over it. As to your legacy item, I'd go with the bow.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

The robe of eyes is a good start. Maybe it could be juiced just a bit.

We're all L1 right now. I'm one of seven L1 PCs. Sorry about the confusion. Also I like the ranger and all of its other abilities. I just want to be as useful as possible to my party *once initiative is rolled* so to speak.

My goal is to think of another useful item besides a weapon that would be worth 200k gp. Right now "super-vision" is the best idea I've got. Anyone think of anything better? Anyone think I'm being stupid for not just doing the obvious (making the bow the legacy item)?


I'm his DM. (He can verify this as needed, of course.)

As he said, they're all starting at lvl 1.

One solution would be to make his bow "more uber" using gold along with a legacy item...which in the end, since you can't go above +10 on a weapon until epic, would mean the +xx,xxx gp enhancements to items. These are usually more common on armors than weapons and I'd have to look into weapon bonuses for this to be helpful.

Another solution would be the robe of eyes option. I'm extending legacy items (normally just weapons or armor) to just about anything. E.G a mage sorceror character may want an uber staff (staff of power/of the magi/specific spells) or an uber rod (various metamagic rods all put onto the same item). I'm cool with this/flexible.

So the goggles DrSparnum has mentioned would be fine by me, but since this is a public discussion, maybe the best/maybe not the best choice?

And if they are to be the choice, perhaps a layering over time of see invisibility, darkvision, true seeing (extended, spot check bonus, blindsense, blind sight, low light vision, clairvoyance?, true strike?, and possibly the bow feats/magic item bonuses that allow for distant shots, piercing cover/concealment, shooting into melee.

Just spitballin' some ideas here.

Grand Lodge

drsparnum wrote:

The robe of eyes is a good start. Maybe it could be juiced just a bit.

We're all L1 right now. I'm one of seven L1 PCs. Sorry about the confusion. Also I like the ranger and all of its other abilities. I just want to be as useful as possible to my party *once initiative is rolled* so to speak.

My goal is to think of another useful item besides a weapon that would be worth 200k gp. Right now "super-vision" is the best idea I've got. Anyone think of anything better? Anyone think I'm being stupid for not just doing the obvious (making the bow the legacy item)?

It's not neccessarily stupid. I don't see however being a good ranged striker as not being "contributive", just make sure you get the right feats early on, such as point blank and precise shot, so you never have a reason not to fire.

If anything you'll be contributing even more often than the melee swingers since you're not going to be sacrificing your full attack options to movement.

Your legacy item is up to you. It doesn't HAVE to be a bow or other weapon. It should be something memorable and proud to have. But it's important to remember that your campaign especially one in the UnderDark is going to be a lot more than just a series of combat rounds with token separation between them.


Not really a spoiler, but while LazarX is correct...this "is going to be a lot more than just a series of combat rounds with token separation between them".

However, little if any of this is in the Underdark...it's an invasion of Drow on the surface world.

Nonetheless, the point rings true.


And on further thought....

bonuses to sense motive, see through disguises, see through lies, etc could be of benefit. Even clairaudience could be cool, or detect evil.

Also, perhaps if the OP were to spend his legacy item on the bow and then focus on buying specialized arrows?

The problem with arrows is players are generally loathe to use them as they are one shot (pardon the unintentional pun) magic items.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

We all know specialized arrows (excluding silver and cold iron) are so damn expensive, it's tough to justify the expense until very high levels.

Silver Crusade

You plan ahead! I like to keep my players wondering if they'll survive to level 2...

Has your DM given you an idea specifically of what you're looking at for a legacy item? Lots of misc. item options out there, but hard to say if he's going from a pre-fab list or is going to create them on the fly.

Anyways, don't assume you're there to only deal damage. Many encounters can be "solved" without combat through creative means.

(p.s. Good catch on the extra 25,000 cost. Whew those are some expensive spectacles!)


drsparnum wrote:
Background Stuff

May I suggest a magic quiver be your legacy item. (I know it is a change from the sight stuff you were looking at.) A magic quiver that is a legacy item could give lots of benefits and still allow the DM creativity in what it does. It would also still allow you to be able to focus on your bow the way you want. Anything from free repeating ammo, to bonuses to initiative, to various bane or elemental effects per day based upon level.

If you really want the goggles, just have the DM scale the power with level. At low level it starts as low light vision, then dark vision, arcane sight, etc. The DM can set the upper limit of how good it gets and the range. Just let him/her know that extra range is more important then power of the ability due to the bow use. Although I really think 120 feet is a pretty good limit for most of the spells.

Scarab Sages

Hmm... you could start out with Bracers of archery, and let your dm ubercize them for you :p

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