Contingency + Resilient Sphere , cheaper than raise dead ?


Rules Questions


under contingency a spell fires off as an imedaite action

if your trigger is that when one of your allies has been targeted by a spell which has an effect that can cause instant death e.g. Disentigration, Phantasmal Killer, power word kill etc.

then the attacker starts casting thier death spell contigency fires off , the targetted ally gets surrounded by a sphere which blocks all but gaze attacks the targetted spell hits the wall and the PC is safe.

Breath weapons and spells cannot pass through a resiliant sphere (based on wall of force) in either direction.

cost 1500gp contingency vs 5000gp raise dead

of couse your ally may have made the save or had SR block it but people tend to roll badly aginst save vs death XD

thoughts ?


Contingency only affects you and only triggers a spell that affects you.

From the PRD:

Contingency

School evocation; Level sorcerer/wizard 6

Casting Time at least 10 minutes; see text

Components V, S, M (quicksilver and an eyelash of a spell-using creature), F (ivory statuette of you worth 1,500 gp)

Range personal

Target you

Duration 1 day/level (D) or until discharged

You can place another spell upon your person so that it comes into effect under some condition you dictate when casting contingency. The contingency spell and the companion spell are cast at the same time. The 10-minute casting time is the minimum total for both castings; if the companion spell has a casting time longer than 10 minutes, use that instead. You must pay any costs associated with the companion spell when you cast contingency.

The spell to be brought into effect by the contingency must be one that affects your person and be of a spell level no higher than one-third your caster level (rounded down, maximum 6th level).

The conditions needed to bring the spell into effect must be clear, although they can be general. In all cases, the contingency immediately brings into effect the companion spell, the latter being “cast” instantaneously when the prescribed circumstances occur. If complicated or convoluted conditions are prescribed, the whole spell combination (contingency and the companion magic) may fail when triggered. The companion spell occurs based solely on the stated conditions, regardless of whether you want it to.

You can use only one contingency spell at a time; if a second is cast, the first one (if still active) is dispelled.


so cheaper than rasie dead for you and your familiar and screw the rest of the group hehehe :)


Phasics wrote:
so cheaper than rasie dead for you and your familiar and screw the rest of the group hehehe :)

Until you realize that your resilient sphere can also be disintegrated, or shoved off a cliff, or picked up by an angry dragon and used as a plaything, or when your enemies dispel it after you conveniently used battlefield control magic to remove yourself from the fight and slaughter your friends while you watch...

Edit: OK, no cliffs, no dragons, but since the sphere went up your line of effect just got cut off have fun participating in the battle from inside your bubble. Or when something dimension doors inside with you...


Don't get to comfortable with the contingency.....

Alot of people put a lot of stock into this spell and then someone comes along and dispels it..........hehehe ;)


Phasics wrote:
so cheaper than rasie dead for you and your familiar and screw the rest of the group hehehe :)

Also problematic is the trigger. In general I don't give the trigger sentience let alone spellcraft. It doesn't know what the opponent is about to cast, let alone who is targeted by it beforehand.

Imagine:
DM: "You identify that the bad guy is casting p-killer"
You: "I go in my bubble"
DM: looking at your friend, "Make a Will save"
Party: "We retreat"
You: "Hey guys wait for me!"
DM: "Don't worry.. I'll wait"

-James


Lathiira wrote:
Phasics wrote:
so cheaper than rasie dead for you and your familiar and screw the rest of the group hehehe :)

Until you realize that your resilient sphere can also be disintegrated, or shoved off a cliff, or picked up by an angry dragon and used as a plaything, or when your enemies dispel it after you conveniently used battlefield control magic to remove yourself from the fight and slaughter your friends while you watch...

Edit: OK, no cliffs, no dragons, but since the sphere went up your line of effect just got cut off have fun participating in the battle from inside your bubble. Or when something dimension doors inside with you...

disentriagte is acutally a perfect outcome, sphere goes up eats the disentrigation and goes poof and your free to act on your turn.

as for being stuck inside ..... umm your a mage if dimension door isn't on your list ... well I don't like to judge ;)


Make the trigger a free action that does not require you to have the ability to move.

When I think "black polar bears"


james maissen wrote:
Phasics wrote:
so cheaper than rasie dead for you and your familiar and screw the rest of the group hehehe :)

Also problematic is the trigger. In general I don't give the trigger sentience let alone spellcraft. It doesn't know what the opponent is about to cast, let alone who is targeted by it beforehand.

Imagine:
DM: "You identify that the bad guy is casting p-killer"
You: "I go in my bubble"
DM: looking at your friend, "Make a Will save"
Party: "We retreat"
You: "Hey guys wait for me!"
DM: "Don't worry.. I'll wait"

-James

well the trigger is as good as your DM will allow

and again

your a mage , you should have ddoor memorised

your scenario would acutally play out like this
DM: "You identify that the bad guy is casting p-killer"
You: "I go in my bubble"
DM: looking at your friend, "Make a Will save"
Party: "We retreat"
You: "DDoor"
Party: "Wha .."
You: "what took you guys so long ? you said retreat so I GTFO been waiting here 10minutes already.


KenderKin wrote:

Make the trigger a free action that does not require you to have the ability to move.

When I think "black polar bears"

hah thats acutally prob the best trigger I've heard XD

of course your DM will then try and surprise attack you saying since you wern't aware of the attack you had no time to think


Phasics wrote:


well the trigger is as good as your DM will allow

and again

your a mage , you should have ddoor memorised

your scenario would acutally play out like this
DM: "You identify that the bad guy is casting p-killer"
You: "I go in my bubble"
DM: looking at your friend, "Make a Will save"
Party: "We retreat"
You: "DDoor"
Party: "Wha .."
You: "what took you guys so long ? you said retreat so I GTFO been waiting here 10minutes already.

Now to ask the important question: why did the party retreat? Perhaps because you were hiding in your bubble? In some groups, you might need either another bubble or another d-door when they catch up to you;p


Lathiira wrote:
Phasics wrote:


well the trigger is as good as your DM will allow

and again

your a mage , you should have ddoor memorised

your scenario would acutally play out like this
DM: "You identify that the bad guy is casting p-killer"
You: "I go in my bubble"
DM: looking at your friend, "Make a Will save"
Party: "We retreat"
You: "DDoor"
Party: "Wha .."
You: "what took you guys so long ? you said retreat so I GTFO been waiting here 10minutes already.

Now to ask the important question: why did the party retreat? Perhaps because you were hiding in your bubble? In some groups, you might need either another bubble or another d-door when they catch up to you;p

Sorry maybe I'm just not getting it by why would the party retreat when they know you'll be out next turn ?

they know you bubble to save yourself they also know next round you ddoor out and rejoin the fight so .....

and if a group knows what good for them you don't get angry at your mage its just not smart ;)

Grand Lodge

That sort of trigger won't work because it's when you are affected by the spell which means the spell has already taken it's stab at you before the contigency pops up.

I would allow a gesture or word that could be done as a readied action to help in this case.


Phasics wrote:


Sorry maybe I'm just not getting it by why would the party retreat when they know you'll be out next turn ?

they know you bubble to save yourself they also know next round you ddoor out and rejoin the fight so .....

and if a group knows what good for them you don't get angry at your mage its just not smart ;)

What I'm saying is that while you were hiding in your sphere, cut off from the others, they were forced to retreat because they were down one man (you). They fought without their wizard and had to run away. If you'd been present, maybe things would have been different.

Oh, and beware someone dropping a dimensional anchor or lock, that might make things nasty. And of course the ever-unpopular antimagic field.

Also, for all the powers of wizards, it's never smart to tick off the other adventurers. You have to prep spells after 8 hours of sleep sometime;)

This is an old tactic, it's been a long time since I saw it and it brings back memories.


Lathiira wrote:


Oh, and beware someone dropping a dimensional anchor or lock, that might make things nasty.

Forbiddence is more likely, and blocks all extradimensional travel.

-James
PS: Small quibble on the other poster, but free actions can only be taken on your turn. (What you are describing is a non-action mind you, but that's another small quibble)


james maissen wrote:
Lathiira wrote:


Oh, and beware someone dropping a dimensional anchor or lock, that might make things nasty.

Forbiddence is more likely, and blocks all extradimensional travel.

-James
PS: Small quibble on the other poster, but free actions can only be taken on your turn. (What you are describing is a non-action mind you, but that's another small quibble)

Forbiddance takes 6 rounds to cast; dimensional lock, a standard action.

Shadow Lodge

Phasics wrote:
well the trigger is as good as your DM will allow

This is pretty much it right here. If your GM lets you say something like "when you are targeted by a death spell*" then it can fly. Of course what is a death spell? Transmute flesh to stone? Baleful Polymorph? Imprisonment? Magic Jar?

You might be better off saying "When I cry 'uncle' out loud", essentially making it a verbal command when your character uses spellcraft to choose to hide. You can also speak out of turn.

*I wouldn't let a player put something like this in a contingency personally but as you say it's up to the GM.


If I'm a Wizard and I cast a Phantasmal Killer on an enemy and a contingent RS pops up to block it, that's just as good an outcome for me as if you had failed your saves.

I just took you completely out of the combat with a 4th level spell. Now your companions are on their own.

Congratulations - you just made yourself useless - for only 1,500gp.

Don't worry - when your "friends" are dead, I'll wait for that sphere to drop so that you'll need a raise dead anyways.

Shadow Lodge

Treantmonk wrote:

If I'm a Wizard and I cast a Phantasmal Killer on an enemy and a contingent RS pops up to block it, that's just as good an outcome for me as if you had failed your saves.

I just took you completely out of the combat with a 4th level spell. Now your companions are on their own.

Congratulations - you just made yourself useless - for only 1,500gp.

Don't worry - when your "friends" are dead, I'll wait for that sphere to drop so that you'll need a raise dead anyways.

Hehe... this is a great point, you've avoided one saving throw which you may have made in any case and now you have to spend a round dimension dooring out to be effective again.


Lathiira wrote:


Forbiddance takes 6 rounds to cast; dimensional lock, a standard action.

True. It's not a question about in combat though, but rather already being there in the case of the forbiddance.

Dim lock is what, 8th level? It effects a fireball sized area. Now it does so for days.. but a small area.

Forbiddance is only 6th level, it lasts forever (until dispelled) and it effects a HUGE area 60' cubes...

-James

Shadow Lodge

I'm not sure either forbidance or dimension lock would work through a resilient sphere. It blocks line of effect. If one were cast in advance then I would rule it's already in the area but trying to cast it on an existing sphere would fail.

Note: Dimension lock describes a barrier but the area is an emanation which means that it requires line of effect.


Treantmonk wrote:

If I'm a Wizard and I cast a Phantasmal Killer on an enemy and a contingent RS pops up to block it, that's just as good an outcome for me as if you had failed your saves.

I just took you completely out of the combat with a 4th level spell. Now your companions are on their own.

Congratulations - you just made yourself useless - for only 1,500gp.

Don't worry - when your "friends" are dead, I'll wait for that sphere to drop so that you'll need a raise dead anyways.

man everyone's PC companions must really suck if they die without thier wizard for a round.

Considering thowing out a summon monster is a nice 1st turn action odds are even if your in a contingency RS your magic is still helping your allies.

or maybe I'm spoilt with a group who can take care of themselves without me for a round.


Phasics wrote:
Treantmonk wrote:

If I'm a Wizard and I cast a Phantasmal Killer on an enemy and a contingent RS pops up to block it, that's just as good an outcome for me as if you had failed your saves.

I just took you completely out of the combat with a 4th level spell. Now your companions are on their own.

Congratulations - you just made yourself useless - for only 1,500gp.

Don't worry - when your "friends" are dead, I'll wait for that sphere to drop so that you'll need a raise dead anyways.

man everyone's PC companions must really suck if they die without thier wizard for a round.

Considering thowing out a summon monster is a nice 1st turn action odds are even if your in a contingency RS your magic is still helping your allies.

or maybe I'm spoilt with a group who can take care of themselves without me for a round.

It's probably 2 rounds. Maybe you can do something with your move action that's useful prior to casting d-door, but you can't act after casting that spell. At higher levels, that means your foes have had 2 rounds to fight a smaller party. The enemy spellcasters will thus have had 2 rounds to neutralize your buddies with things like solid fog, glitterdust, black tentacles, wall of stone, and so on.


Phasics wrote:


man everyone's PC companions must really suck if they die without thier wizard for a round.
Considering thowing out a summon monster is a nice 1st turn action odds are even if your in a contingency RS your magic is still helping your allies.

or maybe I'm spoilt with a group who can take care of themselves without me for a round.

Their death may be far from certain by removing the wizard from the combat for a round (at least), but their position definitely becomes worse. Maybe it's just me, but PAYING in order to compromise your tactical position hardly seems like a top notch investment...

My Wizard: I shall neutralize that Wizard by imprisoning him in a resilient sphere!

My Wizard: Curses! Forgot to memorize it this morning! I guess my inferior Phantasmal Killer will have to do. Unfortunate...wizards almost always resist this spell...

*Casts and the enemy wizard is imprisoned in a Resilient Sphere

My Wizard: WTF???

Enemy Wizard: VICTORY! For merely the cost of 1,500gp and my only Contingency slot I have foiled your spell by imprisoning myself in a Resilient Sphere!!!

My Wizard: *rolls on floor laughing*


Couldn't he just use Dimension door with the contingency instead?

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