So I was pondering how I always liked the idea of a ranged rogue, but it seems as a rogue you are kind of pigeon-holed into jumping into the melee. This is because the max range to sneak attack is 30', and let's face if you're that close you may as well pull out a couple shortswords or knives and jump in. I don't like the idea of creating more and more feats but how about making feats rarely taken by most rogues a little more beneficial. Here are my suggestions.
Precise Shot: not only removes the -4 penalty of shooting into melee but increases the range a rogue can sneak attack to 60'.
Improved Precise Shot: Ignores all but total concealment and cover and increases the range a rogue can sneak attack to 90'. (keep in mind a straight rogue has to be 15th level to qualify)
Do these suggestions seem reasonable?
Or perhaps taking a feat to grant entry to having the above feats function as above?
|
Its not a Pathfinder rule, but there is a feat or PrC that gives rogues extended range on their sneak attack. I'm sorry I just cant recall off the top of my head ATM where it is. I wanna say if its a PrC its from Peerless Archer from the Forgotten Realms "Silver Marches", but if its a feat I'm thinking then has to be from PHB2 or Complete Warrior
True, ranged sneak attacks got nerfed in PF thanks to changes to the Ring of Blinking, disallowing splash weapons etc. In the Campaign Setting, i think Kyonin has a regional feat that allows you to deal precision damage from up to the range of your bow. You can pump that up to 220 ft. with a comp. longbow if you take Far Shot feat.
You could use the Sniper's Shot spell from SC tho.
Makes a Scout/Ranger viable if you take the feat that stacks the two for purposes of skirmish (Swift Hunter, i think)
techincally speaking no one should even see your rogue even under 30 feet ;)
Precise Shot: not only removes the -4 penalty of shooting into melee but increases the range a rogue can sneak attack to 60'.
Improved Precise Shot: Ignores all but total concealment and cover and increases the range a rogue can sneak attack to 90'. (keep in mind a straight rogue has to be 15th level to qualify)
Do these suggestions seem reasonable?
Your changes all seem fairly reasonable, but they almost turn these into Rogue feats. Not quite, but almost.
Me, I would change them to say that each feat doubles the "point blank" range, which is 30'. So with one feat it becomes 60', with both it becomes 90' (double + double = triple according to the rules).
Then I would edit the Sneak Attack ability and where it says "30 feet", I would change that to say "point blank range".
It's a small technicality, but unless a feat is specifically made for a class (e.g. Extra Ki or Extra Lay on Hands), I don't think it should even mention a class in the description - otherwise it gives the appearance of being designed just for that class.
Precise Shot: not only removes the -4 penalty of shooting into melee but increases the range a rogue can sneak attack to 60'.
Improved Precise Shot: Ignores all but total concealment and cover and increases the range a rogue can sneak attack to 90'. (keep in mind a straight rogue has to be 15th level to qualify)
Do these suggestions seem reasonable?
Your changes all seem fairly reasonable, but they almost turn these into Rogue feats. Not quite, but almost.
Me, I would change them to say that each feat doubles the "point blank" range, which is 30'. So with one feat it becomes 60', with both it becomes 90' (double + double = triple according to the rules).
Then I would edit the Sneak Attack ability and where it says "30 feet", I would change that to say "point blank range".
It's a small technicality, but unless a feat is specifically made for a class (e.g. Extra Ki or Extra Lay on Hands), I don't think it should even mention a class in the description - otherwise it gives the appearance of being designed just for that class.
I really like that suggestion because it would also make point blank shot more attractive to rangers and other ranged combatants instead of mostly just being a stepping stone.
There is a feat in PH2 that lets you add 1/2 your Dex bonus to crossbow damage AND increases sneak attack range to 60 feet.
|
Funny, with Longbow proficiency and Deadly Aim, my rogue in Second Darkness switched from TWF to almost exclusively ranged combat from lvl 12-15.
Within 30' is definitely doable, and with the right tricks, it becomes very viable.
With 3.5ed, crossbow sniper (PHB2) upped that range to 60' and added 1/2 Dex on damage. I really po'ed the em with a rogue using that trick.
-t
I think I would do it with new Rogue Talents.
Sharp Shooter With this ability a rogue increases the distance from which he can make a ranged sneak attack by 30'.
Improved Sharp Shooter With this ability a rogue who has previously taken Sharp Shooter can increase his Sneak Attack distance an additional 30'.
There are probably flaws in there, I'm no game designer, but if I was making an elven rogue long bow sniper, I'd certainly want to take these.
I ended up using a pathfinder updated version of the Ninja class so that I could do ranged sneak attacks (it is easy to do sneak attacks when you are invisible). As for increasing sneak attack range, my GM let me use a modified version of the crossbow sniper feat that would let me increase sneak attack range with a specific weapon (as long as I had weapon focus in it).
I would suggest adding a feat the allows the rogue to sneak attack with ranged weapons when the target is flanked. This is a natural extension of melee based sneak attacks because the target is distracted.
So long as they all have Gang Up as well.
Ninja with Invisible Blade is probably the best straightforward way to do it in PF, so long as your foes don't have special vision at that point.
|
there is a rogue archetype with an ability and a ninja trick called Deadly Range which improves "point blank range" by +10 feet. I run it as flat +30 in my game. also this:
Point Blank Shot
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus to attack and damage with a ranged weapon, and may add your Dexterity bonus to damage, when your target is within point blank range (usually 30 feet). If you already add your Strength bonus to damage (ex. a thrown weapon), only add the higher between your Strength and Dexterity.
the rogue in my game has taken both.
Another problem is that you still cant sneak attack if you dont win initiative.
PS: I did not read every post so this may have been covered.
Edit: I just realized how old this thread was.
I've modified Far Shot (otherwise a pretty meh feat) thus:
Also increases the range of a missile Sneak Attack to 50', or two range increments of the weapon, whichever is less (but at least 30').
Might not be enough.