Hi
I "built" a character last night, and I'd like opinions.
His level 20 stats, feats, etc. Haven't bought magic gear for him or anything.
Human fighter/rogue 5/15
Str 13
Dex 24 (bought 17 + 2 human + 5 stat increases)
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 10
Feats:
H: Point Blank Shot
1: Weapon Finesse
2: Quick Draw (Fighter bonus)
3: Two-weapon Fighting
3: Weapon Focus (Dagger) (Rogue Talent - Weapon Training)
4: Rapid Shot (Fighter bonus)
5: Precise Shot
6: Weapon Specialization (Dagger) (Fighter bonus)
7: Far Shot
9: Arcane Strike
11: Deadly Aim
11: Power Attack (Rogue Talent - Combat Trick)
13: Improved Critical (Dagger)
15: Dazzling Display
15: Shatter Defenses (Rogue Talent - Feat)
17: Critical Focus
19: Bleeding Critical
Class Features:
1: Sneak Attack (1 die at 1st, one extra at 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th, 20th for a total of 8d6 at 20th)
1: Trapfinding
3: Evasion
4: Bravery
5: Armor Training
7: Weapon Training
8: Trap Sense +1
9: Uncanny Dodge
11: Trap Sense +2
13: Improved Uncanny Dodge
14: Trap Sense +3
15: Advanced Talents
17: Trap Sense +4
20: Trap Sense +5
Rogue Talents:
3: Weapon Training
9: Minor Magic (probably Mage Hand)
11: Combat Trick
13: Bleeding Attack
15: Feat
17: Opportunitist
19: Crippling Strike
His combat routine, at level 20, not including bonuses from gear or spells, look like (not including Point Blank, as not all his attacks will get that bonus):
Dagger +16 to hit 1d4+18
Dagger +16 to hit 1d4+18 (must be ranged)
Dagger +16 to hit 1d4+17* (off-hand)
Dagger +11 to hit 1d4+18
Dagger +6 to hit 1d4+18
Dagger +1 to hit 1d4+18
These attacks assume he is using both TWF, Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim and Power Attack in the same round. His off-hand attack, of melee will only be +12 damage instead of +17.
Any thoughts on this knife fighter?
You probably do not qualify for Arcane strike - spell like abilities are not spells. Your caster level for them is not a caster level.
You cannot use Rapid Shot unless you use all ranged attacks.
"When making a full-attack action with a ranged weapon, you can fire one additional time this round. All of your attack rolls take a –2 penalty when using Rapid Shot."
In any case, for a rogue, taking -4 on all attacks is probably counterproductive to getting more damage.
AC for CR 19 and 20 creatures in the srd: 33, 36, 36, 38, 38, 39
Give you a +5 weapon and 3 dex bonus from items and maybe another +2 to hit, you would be at +26/+28 (if you remove the rapid shot penalty). You need to roll a 10 or better to hit anything but the ooze. Your next iterative attack hits on a 15, the rest only on a twenty.
John Spalding wrote: You probably do not qualify for Arcane strike - spell like abilities are not spells. Your caster level for them is not a caster level.
You cannot use Rapid Shot unless you use all ranged attacks.
"When making a full-attack action with a ranged weapon, you can fire one additional time this round. All of your attack rolls take a –2 penalty when using Rapid Shot."
You may be right on the Arcane Strike, though I'm not sure about it.
Rapid Shot doesn't say all my attacks need to be ranged. And I have included -2 to all attacks.
Your point about AC and not able to hit may be correct, though I'd image there are other opponents than Bestiary creatures at those levels. Also, when using Shatter Defenses or Blinding Critical, my opponents would (unless unaffected or having other means) be somewhat easier to hit.
Bruno Kristensen wrote: John Spalding wrote: You probably do not qualify for Arcane strike - spell like abilities are not spells. Your caster level for them is not a caster level.
You cannot use Rapid Shot unless you use all ranged attacks.
"When making a full-attack action with a ranged weapon, you can fire one additional time this round. All of your attack rolls take a –2 penalty when using Rapid Shot."
You may be right on the Arcane Strike, though I'm not sure about it.
Rapid Shot doesn't say all my attacks need to be ranged. And I have included -2 to all attacks.
Your point about AC and not able to hit may be correct, though I'd image there are other opponents than Bestiary creatures at those levels. Also, when using Shatter Defenses or Blinding Critical, my opponents would (unless unaffected or having other means) be somewhat easier to hit. It's been clarified that spell-like abilities aren't enough to get Arcane Strike elsewhere on the boards.
As for Rapid Shot: in 3.5 I believe the Sage let people get away with using it while still allowing melee attacks (I think he used it in a conversation about a monk with shuriken and using flurry of blows, though, so it could be a monk-based corner case). The RAW in Pathfinder let you get away with it based on where you parse words, RAI probably mean "make every attack in your full attack a ranged attack to use this feat".
If thrown weapon builds worked, I'd say:
Drop rapid shot, pick up improved two-weapon fighting. You'll still get to throw the extra dagger.
As it is, instead I'll say:
First, ask your DM if he'll let returning weapons return as soon as the attack resolves, rather than beginning of next round-otherwise, you're going to be throwing around +1 knives at lvl 20-cuz you can't afford half a dozen daggers at 50k+ a pop. Sneak attack will get *some* damage through the DR, but not enough.
If he says yes, see above. Otherwise, trash the character.
Rapid Shot:
When making a full-attack action with a ranged weapon, you can fire one additional time this round. All of your attack rolls take a –2 penalty when using Rapid Shot.
John Spalding wrote: Rapid Shot:
When making a full-attack action with a ranged weapon, you can fire one additional time this round. All of your attack rolls take a –2 penalty when using Rapid Shot.
Yes, I'm well aware of the text. I also work as a professional translator, so it is not a matter of not understanding the finer nuances of the language.
Unless your claim is that either 1) thrown weapons aren't ranged weapons or 2) that daggers can't be both melee and ranged weapons in the same round, the feat "should" work.
From the SRD:
"Melee and Ranged Weapons
Melee weapons are used for making melee attacks, though some of them can be thrown as well. Ranged weapons are thrown weapons...".
If it is 1), then Point Blank Shot doesn't work with a dagger either, though Precise Shot would as it say you can "shoot or throw ranged weapons at an opponent engaged in melee without taking the standard –4 penalty on your attack roll."
This at least suggests that you should consider thrown weapons as ranged weapons, unless they suggest throwing bows and crossbows at the enemy :)
If it is 2), then I'd still like to see a point in the rules. The "Full-attack" doesn't imply you have to make all attacks with the same weapon, I'd think...or Quick Draw will suddenly be invalidated, as it specifically allows you to throw weapons at the full rate of attacks (which normally requires a full-attack).
Lathiira wrote: It's been clarified that spell-like abilities aren't enough to get Arcane Strike elsewhere on the boards.
As for Rapid Shot: in 3.5 I believe the Sage let people get away with using it while still allowing melee attacks (I think he used it in a conversation about a monk with shuriken and using flurry of blows, though, so it could be a monk-based corner case). The RAW in Pathfinder let you get away with it based on where you parse words, RAI probably mean "make every attack in your full attack a ranged attack to use this feat".
Well, I will concede the point of Arcane Strike, though it makes Minor Magic even worse of a talent...yay, I can do some minor trick three times per day...any apprentice wizard can do it 14400 times per day (though I'd say Con checks to stay awake after the first 6000 times would be in order).
I am curious as to where you damage numbers are coming from?
If you Power Attack/Deadly Aim you'll add +10 main hand and +5 off hand in melee (since your BAB Maxes at 16) and +10 on Ranged, you get +1 from your Str, +1 from your fighter Weapon Training and +2 from Weapons Specialization on both melee and ranged. That makes +14 Main hand and +9 off hand in melee +14 ranged. Where is the other 3-4 points coming from in Melee/Ranged?
Also if your throwing your second attack with Rapid Shot, how are you avoiding giving opponents your in melee with attacks of opportunity when making a ranged attack?
Are you married to daggers or would your knife fighter use Kukri's? Less damage than a dagger (1d3) but a higher crit rate which would tie in well with your crit feats and depending on your game setting it could be appropriate.
As an odd note, if your purely throwing at range your actually doing more damage per hit since your off hand thrown weapons do not reduce the damage from Deadly Aim like Power Attack does for an off hand melee attack.
Lastly as noted before you would probably be better served by taking the next level of TWF and dropping Rapid shot. The overall math works out more accurate and therefore more overall damage. If your using 3.5 material then keep the rapid shot and get Gloves of the Balanced Hand from the Magic Item Compendium for a free upgrade to Improved TWF.
Will switch Rapid Shot for IMP TWF, as the math IS better...who would have thought...
The last four points of damage is from Arcane Strike (which I've been told isn't possible with this build, so that will drop too).
Regarding AoOs: There's always the 5' step away to throw. Reason I picked daggers, not Kukris is that I want the ability to change between ranged and melee at a heart beat. If Focus and Specialization worked on classes of weapon, sure, he'd have Kukris for melee and daggers for ranged.
Bruno Kristensen wrote: Regarding AoOs: There's always the 5' step away to throw. Reason I picked daggers, not Kukris is that I want the ability to change between ranged and melee at a heart beat. Yeah you can five foot step but then you lose the rest of your melee attacks unless you somehow get reach.
And your right about weapon selection. For some odd reason I thought you could throw Kukri's but you can only do it as an improvised ranged weapon and Catch Off Guard only works in melee.
Gilfalas wrote: Bruno Kristensen wrote: Yeah you can five foot step but then you lose the rest of your melee attacks unless you somehow get reach. True, but since he is at least as effective with ranged attacks, that not really a problem. He stabs, when he "has to", but throws when he can.
Recent threads in General Discussion
|
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
