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You pepper an area with arrows, attempting to hit as many foes as possible, but sacrificing accuracy to do so.
Prerequisites: Rapid Shot, base attack bonus +6
Benefit: As a standard action, you target a area with a 30 foot radius and fire a number of arrows equal to 4 + your dex mod. All creatures in this area must make a reflex save DC 10 + 1/2 your highest attack bonus (minimum 1 and after effects such as deadly aim if desired) or take damage from an arrow. You can only damage a number of creatures equal to the number of arrows fired. This attack ignores concealment and up to 50% cover.
Thought this up while pondering why archers didn't have the same options as melee characters to target multiple opponents with a standard action (ie.-cleave/great cleave). Simply giving an archer a feat such as cleave and great cleave seemed too powerful given the ranges archers are capable of. Any thoughts/constructive criticism are welcome!
You pepper an area with arrows, attempting to hit as many foes as possible, but sacrificing accuracy to do so.
Prerequisites: Rapid Shot, base attack bonus +6
Benefit: As a standard action, you target a area with a 30 foot radius and fire a number of arrows equal to 4 + your dex mod. All creatures in this area must make a reflex save DC 10 + 1/2 your highest attack bonus (minimum 1 and after effects such as deadly aim if desired) or take damage from an arrow. You can only damage a number of creatures equal to the number of arrows fired. This attack ignores concealment and up to 50% cover.Thought this up while pondering why archers didn't have the same options as melee characters to target multiple opponents with a standard action (ie.-cleave/great cleave). Simply giving an archer a feat such as cleave and great cleave seemed too powerful given the ranges archers are capable of. Any thoughts/constructive criticism are welcome!
I think the DC is a bit too high and the requirements should include Manyshot.
Great cleave allows you to hit targets in reach, as long as you keep making rolls to hit. Your feat allows you to hit everyone in a 6 hex radius...thats up to 61! Targets if they are closely grouped. Even a tunnel or bridge, 10' wide, 50' long (that's 20 targets charging at you) you could hit ALL of them with this feat at level 6...
So, maybe you hit a single Target, and then, if you hit, you can shoot an adjacent target, and so on, until you reach targets = LVL/2.
OR something. But your Feat is WAYYYY too powerful. Especially against ranked troops or models in a close area, like a tunnel...
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It seems like firing that many arrows would be a full-round action at best. How would you be using deadly aim if you are essentially firing randomly?
It seems a little bit complicated and a bit too powerful. How about just something like a ricochet shot?
Prerequisites: Precise Shot, base attack bonus +6
Benefit:As a standard action, you can make a single ranged attack at a single foe within range. If you hit, you deal damage normally and can make an additional attack (using your full base attack bonus) against a foe that is adjacent to the first and also within range as the attack bounces off of the first target to hit the second. You can only make one additional attack per round with this feat.
It's pretty close to cleave, and I don't really see it being more powerful, really. Maybe add a "only apply precision damage (such as from sneak attack) to the first target" or something if it seems appropriate.
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I think the DC is a bit too high and the requirements should include Manyshot.
Fair enough...10+dex mod and prereq manyshot, bab +11 sound about right?
Great cleave allows you to hit targets in reach, as long as you keep making rolls to hit. Your feat allows you to hit everyone in a 6 hex radius...thats up to 61! Targets if they are closely grouped. Even a tunnel or bridge, 10' wide, 50' long (that's 20 targets charging at you) you could hit ALL of them with this feat at level 6...
Lunge + greatcleave increases the number substantially for melee (and let's not even get into whirlwind), and with this feat you're still limited to 4+dex mod total targets hit. Maybe decrease radius to 20 foot and specify it must be within one range increment?
EDIT: Maybe drop to 2+dex mod?
So, maybe you hit a single Target, and then, if you hit, you can shoot an adjacent target, and so on, until you reach targets = LVL/2.
I thought about this but the mechanic doesn't really fit for archery IMO. With cleave/great cleave you're working off of you're momentum, with archery it's more you loose x number of arrows
OR something. But your Feat is WAYYYY too powerful. Especially against ranked troops or models in a close area, like a tunnel...
What do you think with those changes?
I think this feat is overpowered and unnecessary. Ranged attacks already have enough options to spit out tons of arrows. Melee doesn't get the option to essentially gain an extra attack at their full attack bonus (Manyshot) and have to work in the two weapon feats to gain an extra attack on a full attack (a la Rapid Shot) and they have to deal with the (typically) sub-par nature of two weapon fighting.
If you are set on making this feat though, here are my suggestions:
Your average archer, by level six, should have a Dex mod of at least +6 (18 base, +2 racial, +2 item, +1 level = 23 or +6), so he can hit up to 10 targets in that area. Make this either simply Dex mod or a small, level-dependent number unmodified by a stat.
Make it a cone, rather than a 30-foot radius. Make it a 30 or 60-foot cone.
It should not ignore concealment or cover.
This hail of arrows seems to imply that you have to hit the AC of the target, who also gets a Reflex save. It should not be this way. Drop the save and just make them hit AC. This better mirrors Cleave.
The reason that Cleave and Great Cleave are options and not must-haves is that you have to sacrifice your full attack and you have to hit with your first swing to gain the desired extra hit(s). This is hard to reflect reasonably with ranged attacks. This is why I suggested in the other thread just leaving Rapid Shot and Manyshot to cover the "feats for bonus attacks" area.
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I always liked the "Penetrating Shot" feat from PHB2(pg.81)
When you make a ranged attack with a projectile weapon (such as a bow, crossbow, or sling), you can instead choose to unleash a single, mighty attack that blasts through multiple opponents. This attack requires a standard action, and your shot takes the form of a 60-foot line. Make a separate attack roll against each creature in the line. If struck, reatures along this line take damage from your shot, though any extra damage (such as from a sneak attack or a fl aming weapon) is applied only against the 1st creature struck.
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You pepper an area with arrows, attempting to hit as many foes as possible, but sacrificing accuracy to do so.
Prerequisites: Rapid Shot, Manyshot, base attack bonus +11
Benefit: As a full-round action, you target a area with a 20 foot radius and fire a number of arrows equal to 2 + your dex mod. You do not roll to hit, instead, all creatures in this area must make a reflex save DC 10 + dex mod or take damage from an arrow. You can only damage a number of creatures equal to the number of arrows fired. This attack ignores concealment (ignoring cover removed). While using Arrowstorm, feats that add additional damage (such as Deadly Aim) cannot be used.
Changes/additions in italics. Closer to balance?
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I always liked the "Penetrating Shot" feat from PHB2(pg.81)
When you make a ranged attack with a projectile weapon (such as a bow, crossbow, or sling), you can instead choose to unleash a single, mighty attack that blasts through multiple opponents. This attack requires a standard action, and your shot takes the form of a 60-foot line. Make a separate attack roll against each creature in the line. If struck, reatures along this line take damage from your shot, though any extra damage (such as from a sneak attack or a fl aming weapon) is applied only against the 1st creature struck.
Nice! This one is nice too, but not exactly what I was trying to accomplish.
You pepper an area with arrows, attempting to hit as many foes as possible, but sacrificing accuracy to do so.
Prerequisites: Rapid Shot, Manyshot, base attack bonus +11
Benefit: As a full-round action, you target a area with a 20 foot radius and fire a number of arrows equal to 2 + your dex mod. You do not roll to hit, instead, all creatures in this area must make a reflex save DC 10 + dex mod or take damage from an arrow. You can only damage a number of creatures equal to the number of arrows fired. This attack ignores concealment (ignoring cover removed). While using Arrowstorm, feats that add additional damage (such as Deadly Aim) cannot be used.Changes/additions in italics. Closer to balance?
Not even close.
The earliest I would introduce this feat is at Epic levels. It does not belong on any character under 21st level.
By the time anyone has a BAB of 11, if they are bow specced, they will have about 10 arrow attacks. But not attacks, these cause REF saves. Fighters, clerics, mages, they're all just going to take a hit. And it will hit invisible targetes, targets in darkness, targets hiding with Stealth, etc.
Tell me this, just 10 arrows (or even 20 or 30) could not possibly hit every square in a 20' radius, yet this guy can fire just 10 arrows and hit stuff he can't even see? Ignoring Concealment makes sense if you somehow fire 100, or 200 arrows in a 360 degree burst around you - nothing could hide from that. But 10? Really? There could be 10 invisible humans in that radius, completely unseen to this archer, and he might miss all of them as his puny 10 arrows pass between them.
But, that's not to say hitting up to 10 targets is "puny". Not by a longshot. That's more than any feat in the game can even dream of, and our archer could hit more than that if he pumps up his DEX enough. And our archer doesn't have to get close to his targets (someone using Great Cleave has to get right up close and personal).
And why only 20 feet? I am positive that if I fire a bow point blank, my arrow will travel farther than 20 feet.
No, your feat is truly Epic.
Try this:
You pepper an area with arrows, attempting to hit as many foes as possible, but sacrificing accuracy to do so.
Prerequisites: Rapid Shot, Manyshot, base attack bonus +11
Benefit: As a full-round action, you target a 30' cone-shaped area and fire a number of arrows equal to 1 per 3 points of BAB (for a maximum of 7 arrows at BAB 19-20). You do not roll to hit, instead, all creatures in this area must make a reflex save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 your BAB or take your normal damage from an arrow. You can only damage a number of creatures equal to the number of arrows fired. You cannot apply any precision damage (such as Sneak Attack). This attack ignores Concealment; with so many arrows in such a small area, even unseen enemies might be hit.
This version limits the area to something that is believable and doesn't overpower the feat into Epic levels. Furthermore, the number of arrows is reduced and based on your general combat skill (BAB) rather than DEX, making this feat worthwhile for all kinds of good and even medium BAB classes. Furthermore, removing DEX from the math removes all kinds of cheesy exploits that otherwise would allow mid-level characters to injure a dozen or more targets.
I still think it's overpowered, but it's much closer to something that is almost plausibly comparable to other combat feats.
As a side note, what you're trying to do here would requre an archer to have fast hands. Super fast hands. Hands that could break the sound barrier. There should be sonic booms every time this feat is used.
Joking aside, what you're looking for doesn't really seem like it should be a feat at all.
What about turning it into a spell?
Benefits:
1. This way, it doesn't look like it belongs in a Naruto cartoon. We can handwave the lack of realism by saying "hey, it's a kind of magic!"
2. You could go back to full circle (it's still magic, right?).
3. Imagine how fast a good archer will run out of arrows with this feat. An adventuring group with this archer in it will find their archer is out of arrows by the second room in the dungeon. But, make the spell turn one arrow into an Arrowstorm, and he can use this a whole lot more.
4. Make a high-level version of the spell that lets the target fire an Arrowstorm once/round instead of only once (the low-level version).
seems an awful lot like the 8th level arcane archer "hail of arrows ability" which is a 15th level ability and hard to get as ya need to take the PRC till 8th level, usable 1/day and is supernatural
Hail of Arrows (Sp): In lieu of his regular attacks, once per day an arcane archer of 8th level or higher can fire an arrow at each and every target within range, to a maximum of one target for every arcane archer level she has earned. Each attack uses the archer's primary attack bonus, and each enemy may only be targeted by a single arrow.
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seems an awful lot like the 8th level arcane archer "hail of arrows ability" which is a 15th level ability and hard to get as ya need to take the PRC till 8th level, usable 1/day and is supernatural
Hail of Arrows (Sp): In lieu of his regular attacks, once per day an arcane archer of 8th level or higher can fire an arrow at each and every target within range, to a maximum of one target for every arcane archer level she has earned. Each attack uses the archer's primary attack bonus, and each enemy may only be targeted by a single arrow.
That allows you to hit EVERY target in range which, assuming a composite longbow lets you hit everything out to 110' in a 180 degree arc. A hell of a lot more than a 20 or 30 foot circle.
How about more like this which, the more I think about it, comes closer to accomplishing what I envisioned the feat doing:
Prerequisites: Same as above
Benefit: You target a 30' circle and release a volley of arrows. You do not roll to hit, instead all creatures in the affected area must make a reflex save DC: 10 + 1/2 BAB. A failed save means that creature must seek cover, drop prone, or take damage from an arrow if either of these is not possible or desired. You may only damage a number of creatures equal to 1/3 your BAB. This attack ignores concealment.
Remove the use of "arrows" and let ALL ranged weapons that reload as a free action do it.
Weapons that ain't bows can be cool too >:|
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Remove the use of "arrows" and let ALL ranged weapons that reload as a free action do it.
Weapons that ain't bows can be cool too >:|
Too true...but what would it be called? Projectilestorm? I mean I could see it being used with a light crossbow with the quick reload feat as well as the sling so yeah that makes sense.
Maybe "Covering Fire" instead of Arrowstorm?
I've been working on a similar thing. Either feat or spell. As a feat it's a full attack, you target a 10' square and basically make an arrow volley by yourself similar to the rules for volleys outlined in the Heroes of Battle book. DC=10+1/2BAB+Magical enhancement on arrows (bow). Those who fail take base arrow damage (usually 1d8) plus enhancement bonus on the weapon. Not a lot of damage, but its an aoe for archers.
As a feat I'd give it pre-reqs of Rapid Shot, Manyshot, BAB +6.
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Suppressing Fire
Requires: Rapid Shot, Many Shot
As a full round action, you may lay down suppressing fire in a 30ft cone. Any creature caught in this area must seek cover (at least 20%) or make a reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level) or take damage equal to weapon damage. Simply moving out of the area (and not directly to cover) does not prevent the damage. If no cover is available within 1 round of movement, dropping prone also avoids the damage
Using suppressing fire uses 8 units of ammunition.
Suppressing Fire, Greater
Requires: Suppressing Fire
Whenever you make a suppressing fire attack, all enemies within the radius must make a will save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level) or attempt to seek cover and become shaken.
Hail of Arrows
Requires: Suppressing Fire, Greater and Character Level 15
In lieu of your regular attacks, once per day an you can fire at each and every target within range, to a maximum of one target per 2 character levels. Each attack uses your primary attack bonus, and each enemy may only be targeted by a single attack.
Now this is what I was looking for. Simple, elegant, and at the cost of 5 total feats (rapid, many, SF, GSF, and finally HoA I believe it is feat intensive enough to not be considered overpowered. And besides, why wouldn't any ole archer be able to do this...it actually seems out of place in a magic archer class and seems to fit better as a feat chain.
Now this is what I was looking for. Simple, elegant, and at the cost of 5 total feats (rapid, many, SF, GSF, and finally HoA I believe it is feat intensive enough to not be considered overpowered. And besides, why wouldn't any ole archer be able to do this...it actually seems out of place in a magic archer class and seems to fit better as a feat chain.Suppressing Fire
Requires: Rapid Shot, Many Shot
As a full round action, you may lay down suppressing fire in a 30ft cone. Any creature caught in this area must seek cover (at least 20%) or make a reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level) or take damage equal to weapon damage. Simply moving out of the area (and not directly to cover) does not prevent the damage. If no cover is available within 1 round of movement, dropping prone also avoids the damage
Using suppressing fire uses 8 units of ammunition.
Suppressing Fire, Greater
Requires: Suppressing Fire
Whenever you make a suppressing fire attack, all enemies within the radius must make a will save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level) or attempt to seek cover and become shaken.
Hail of Arrows
Requires: Suppressing Fire, Greater and Character Level 15
In lieu of your regular attacks, once per day an you can fire at each and every target within range, to a maximum of one target per 2 character levels. Each attack uses your primary attack bonus, and each enemy may only be targeted by a single attack.
That does look good. And it's a level 15 FEAT, which is more balanced. Very cool.
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You might want to consider modeling it after 3.X Flurry of Blows.
Those suppressing fire feats are kind of elegant, but they want for some clarification. For instance: When do enemies take damage from your fire? Is it at the end of their turn? At the beginning of your turn? More importantly, what happens if (when) someone charges you and interrupts your full-round action with melee beats? Time delayed combat moves are pretty hard to manage that way.
Generally, the notion of going "Okay everyone in that cone: I'm going to be shooting at and around you, so find cover or charge me now" seems a bit silly. Of course, the notion of creating 'cover fire' with something as slow-firing as a bow or crossbow is kind of silly too; the strategy doesn't really make sense on a single-combatant scale unless you're packing firearms.
So warrior characters aren't allowed to force Reflex saves until high level? And even then only for 1d8?
I agree with TOZ; dealing 1d8 + a few points of extra damage (since it doesn't comprise precision based damage) to half a dozen targets isn't that epic, it's a lame fireball.
Even if the area is quite large, the conditions to hit more than 5 enemies are relatively rare. I don't see the need to limit the number of targets.
What isn't clear however is how many arrows/projectiles are used in the attack. Not a big deal when shooting regular arrows from an efficient quiver, but one might wonder how many +2 flaming arrows are needed to add the +2 and +1d6 fire damage.
I would also make the DC 10 + 1/2 HD + DEX mod to make it consistent with other abilities. Let the rogue have it too...